2.0T Perfect Gearbox Combo.at Last.

[colti 5]

Morning Puggers....

Just wanted to share the latest mod on my old 2.0T.

Whilst rebuilding the motor I dropped ZX TD ratios into the box with a Helix uprated clutch.

On stands (with the wheels off) it has the gearing to pull 140+ whilst briefly revving up in 5th.

On the (private)road I've seen 130mph(and pulling strong) with another 1500rpm left to go.My nerve ran out before the gearing!

Lower gears dont feel much different to the old 306 16v XSI ratios I was using but 5th is sooo long and suits the XU10J2TE low down torque no end.

 

[dcc 855]

1.9 gti box really suits the turbo engine, but have also fitted a dturbo box to a 200bhp 8v turbo which made it an animal.

[wicked 105 3 Cars]

Do you know the ratios of that zx td box?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

This is good news as ive just rebuilt a td box with new seals and bearings and waiting for a can be arsed day to swap it over on my turbo

[wicked 105 3 Cars]

Do you know the ratios of that zx td box?

I found them already; similar to the 306 1.9TD box:

Citroen ZX 1.9 TD SX 1996 - 1997

1th gear ratio:3,46:1

2th gear ratio:1,87:1

3th gear ratio:1,15:1

4th gear ratio:0,83:1

5th gear ratio:0,66:1

Final drive:3,95:1

[colti 5]

This is good news as ive just rebuilt a td box with new seals and bearings and waiting for a can be arsed day to swap it over on my turbo

I recon its the best mod you can make to a 2.0 turbo,other than an LSD.Even in my stripped out track car 70mph is just 2500 and makes for very comfortable,stress free high speed cruising.

Not ideal for track use but still suits the motor far better than 1.9 and 1.6 boxes and means longer between motor rebuilds.

Well done Wicked!Thats usefull.

[wicked 105 3 Cars]

I have a Xsara 1.9TD gearbox on mine (2.0 turbo, 220bhp). That box is pretty similar to the 306/ZX 1.9TD one.

The 3th, 4th and 5th are really great, far better than 1.9 GTI box which is really too short there for my engine.

But must say that I find the 1st and 2nd gear of the 1.9TD boxes a bit too short (mountain roads / track).

 

I found that the gear ratios of a 206 1.9XND are pretty similar to the 1.9TD boxes in 3th, 4th and 5th, but have slightly longer 1st and 2nd gear.

Maybe that is a good alternative, but have no clue if these boxes are equal strong or weaker than the 1.9TD, because the stock 1.9d engine is far less powerful.

[X-mo 21 2 Cars]

Pretty late to reply here but wanted to share my experiences with you.

 

I stumbled across this thread while I was building my 2.0 TCT in 2020 and therefore bought a 306 1.9 TD gearbox (20CM70) with the same gear ratios as state above. 

So a big thank you @wicked  for making the decision easy for me

 

But as wicked already pointed out, despite the 2nd - 5th gears worked very well with the engine (about 350PS), the gearbox comes with a very short 1st gear which In combination with the 3.94 final drive effectively makes the whole thing a 4 speed transmission as you build up way too much revs/boost accelerating from standstill. In addition to this you always have to deal with an annoying as fu** drop in revs between 1st and 2nd. 

1st/2nd gear from the 1.9 GTI / MI16 BE3 gearboxes would be perfect but as I am aware they only come in the weaker casings.

 

So I decided to build my own gearbox to suit my needs:

 

I used a BE3R bell housing with the BE4 housing (stronger bracing and cooling fins) and fitted the primary shaft of a 205 GTI gearbox in combination with the 3rd - 5th (same ratios can be found in the 1.8 16V and 1.9 Mi16 gearboxes) and final drive from a 205 1.8 D and ended up with this:

 

1th gear ratio:  2,92:1

2th gear ratio:  1,85:1

3th gear ratio:  1,28:1

4th gear ratio:  0,97:1

5th gear ratio:  0,76:1

Final drive:        3,47:1

 

First I was a little bit worried about the long final drive but the engine has plenty enough torque to handle it just fine in "everyday" use. The close gear ratios makes shifting very homogeneous and much more fun than before while cruising in higher gears is nearly the same (increased about 50rpm at the same speed). The benefit of the longer lower gears is incredible.

 

 

[SRDT 186]

Aside from the 1st gear it's similar to the 205 1.8td gearbox, that's what was often used in France when making a 205 TCT back in the days.

What was considered the best gearbox was a BE3/BE4 mix with GTI type close ratios and the extra long 206 HDI "eco" final drive (19x63).

With the BE4 final drive you need at least 3/4 and preferably 5 from another BE4 with close ratios like a 206 S16/GTI so it was much more involved that throwing a stock 205 td box.

[X-mo 21 2 Cars]

Yes you are right. Fits the engine perfectly....with the 2,92 1st gear it's basically a 1.9 Mi16 gearbox with a longer final drive.

Just wouldn't want to use it with the stock 1st and the weaker BE3 housing...especially with the forces involved

 

Sounds interesting but personally I wouldn't put in the extra effort wrestling with the BE4 stuff for just another 0,15 longer final drive. If I want to go full "eco", I'd just slap in the 5th gear from my 1.9 TD gearbox with the 0,66 ratio.

Considered using it for a second while building the box but ditched the idea after throwing the numbers in the calculator. Just an even more insane top speed which the car will never see dearly bought with an unpleasant rev drop.

 

 

[SRDT 186]

Only a few had this gearbox and as you can imagine their engine was far from stock.

 

Speaking of housings some later BE4 have a bigger bearing on the primary shaft (25x52-14 instead of 25x47-15) but it should be the later style BE4 housing so you need an adapter like in the 206 XS Cup:

[X-mo 21 2 Cars]

Crazy, never saw this type of clutch actuation. But I never really dived into the 206 stuff for real.

 

I used the BE4 housing from an 306 with the XU10J4R...it was a 1:1 replacement for the BE3 T.T. stamped housing.  Sadly couldn't use the bell housing (the one with the two extra bolts that would fit to the equivalent oil sump) as well because the space in the engine bay is very restricted due to all the modifications...had to chop away some parts from the BE3R bell housing already

 

Here you can see the difference between the BE3 and BE4 housing...the BE4 version is much better strutted and has those tasty cooling fins. Hope this and some of the finest 90W-140 will reduce wear.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2024 by X-mo

[SRDT 186]

14 minutes ago, X-mo said:

Crazy, never saw this type of clutch actuation. But I never really dived into the 206 stuff for real.

It's from a racecar, no regular 206 had a TU5JP4 with a BE3/6. The bellhousing is a special BE3-TU from before they created the BE4-TU.

When production gear housings changed they had to improvise a bit.

[petert 601]

I've been tuned into this, as I need a gearbox for my turbo 205 race car. The 207 GTi gearbox (20DP32 BE4S) looks perfect. I was going to just use the casing. However, is there any reason why I can't swap the bell housing to a BE3 and keep everything else?

 

Edited August 13, 2024 by petert

[SRDT 186]

In 2007 the internal gear selector mechanism evolved to reduce slop:

 

You could mod the BE3 bellhousing to fit ③ or revert to a BE3 mechanism.

There is more info (in french) here:

https://www.yumpu.com/fr/document/read/16846427/207-lw-reglement-tech-annexes-1-a-6-rcz-racing-cup

[welshpug 1,666]

Is that an extra detent?

[SRDT 186]

① is the main detent, forks still have detents but they are made weaker by the new springs and ramps on the shafts.

If you don't care about a stiffer gear lever you can keep the older forks and shafts.

[petert 601]

I was reminded by a friend that the tooth count is a lot higher on BE4 and thus weaker than BE3 gears. I might just stay with BE3 gear sets.

[SRDT 186]

They are weaker only if PSA used the exact same material and treatments on both gears.

A 207 GTI BE4 is rated for 250 Nm when the best BE3 stops at 220Nm and those are not using "GTI" gearsets.

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

Are the diffs interchangeable between the be3 and be4s?  I'm still running a 1.6 box and am starting to look at changing it as I'm banging the limiter on a few UK tracks now, was initially just going to try a 1.9 box but this might be an interesting alternative. The part number petert mentions is quite readily available for almost no money too.

[SRDT 186]

They are, you can find the two diff sizes on both BE3 and BE4 gearboxes. What could be missing on a modern BE4 or even MB6 diff is some machining for the speedo gear.

[petert 601]

2 hours ago, Spesh said:

 I'm banging the limiter on a few UK tracks now,

What engine? You'll kill it with anything less than 4.06. Sounds like you need to raise the limiter

 

[SRDT 186]

On 8/13/2024 at 12:45 PM, petert said:

The 207 GTi gearbox (20DP32 BE4S)

That's the 150hp version, was it called the GTI in some markets? The 175hp "RC" gearbox is a BE4T with a 19x75 final drive and the code is 20DP34, 20DP3D (new spare part) or 20DPC4 (exchange spare part).

 

Another interesting note is that the two gearboxes can have the BE3 style selection mechanism if they are old enough, in that case the plastic cover for the gear slection shaft is white instead of black so it's easy to spot from the outside.

[petert 601]

Yes, it's called a 207 GTi in Australia. Ah, the 20DP32 has a 19x72 cwp. Are there any other differences with the RC version?

Edited August 16, 2024 by petert

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

7 hours ago, petert said:

What engine? You'll kill it with anything less than 4.06. Sounds like you need to raise the limiter

 

2.2 GTI6, 206bhp at wheels