Opinions On A New, Potential Project

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I wouldn't say I've been there and done it, but I've done enough 205-related stuff to have earned a few stripes.

 

That said, I'm seeking your ideas/opinions on me starting a new project. This is based on me having a bit of time and resources - such as 5 Mi16 engine bare bones - to build something special.

 

Outline:

It will be a car with an Mi16 heart, for road use with no roll-cage, front wheel drive and north of 220bhp. If it's forced induction, it'll be turbo not supercharged.

 

Options:

- I have pistons and cams suitable for a turbo

- I'd like to have ITBs AND a turbo if possible (a la Nissan Pulsar GTR and maybe others)

- I need to acquire a rolling shell, perhaps something from someone with a part-finished project or a blown engine, with no time etc to fix/complete it

- It doesn't have to be a 205; it could be a Xsara, 306, 206 (?), Citroen BX, 405 or even a ZX. (I used to have a ZX 16v which was great!)

- I've seen an XU9J4 (1.9 Mi) kit on eGay with forged pistons, new liners, H rods, ARP bolts and other nice bits that's caught my eye

 

Questions:

- Does anyone have a suitable donor shell? (sneaky wanted ad)

- Does the 206 GTI shell suit an XU lump and is it worth it - based on chassis, wiring etc - as the looks ain't great?

- Any donor turbo recommendations, specifically twin-scroll jobbies?

- Is anyone up for going in with me on this project? (It'd be a project/car share and I'm based in Peterborough, but the car could be at yours)

 

I've found a few donor shell candidates on eGay and am quite fired-up about this.

Edited March 3, 2017 by DrSarty

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Please please don't use a 206, ugly as sin and would be a crying shame to put a Mi in one. My personal vote goes to the BX, cool Citroen with cool suspension (more room in the bay?)

 

Can't help with anything else.

[jackherer 543]

I respectfully suggest using a BX, a ZX, a 309 or maybe a Xsara (in that order.) I don't know how easily you'll find a BX but as said above the engine bay space is good, funnily enough a BX 16v engine fits perfectly! Also they don't have brake servos to get in the way of the manifold.

 

I believe the PSA/BMW engine in MINIs and 208s etc has a twin scroll turbo.

[camgti 56]

Project sounds great!

 

I think a turbo 405 could be very cool and stealth. Still fairly light, still have brown pants oversteer (if your really. Rave on the road). Berlingo rear bars and beam fit them too.

 

If you could find a. x that wphld be the ultimate especially running a turbo! Im in the lrovess of restoring a phase 2 bx16v.

 

I love the idea of throttles and a turbo. The GTiR was an epic beast. Probably add a couple of grand to the build though?

 

A later model Xsara has a few nice mod cons... only if its wide body wrc style will it look the part!

 

Ive got mint totally rust free shells of all three if you want me to ship them over!! Ha!

 

Great to see you back into it. Looking forward to the way this progresses!

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Visa c15.....come on - even the Romahone version!

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

A 405/206 would be my choice, the latter being a far easier car to source.

I think a lightweight 206 would make a surprisingly good fast road car. Like a lightweight 306 or a heavy 309.....

[Gaz205 50]

Have you considered a van? Berlingo, partner etc?

An old pug specialist I used had a v6 berlingo and pretty much turned it into a car with Windows and rear seats etc

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Visa c15.....come on - even the Romahone version!

I've been sorely tempted many times as the van is far more usable than a 205. Like the Renault 5 one on retrorides.

[Gaz205 50]

I've been sorely tempted many times as the van is far more usable than a 205. Like the Renault 5 one on retrorides.

They don't have that much weight either I guess unladen? Ditch the diesel and drop the lighter lump into it, and isn't it a 306 chassis in its simplest form?

[welshpug 1,666]

no, its a 205 subframe up front with a specific horizontal pull shock coil sprung beam.

 

 

I'd vote Phase1 xsara, cheap easy ish to find donors, easy enough to make handle like a zx, just the trailing arms different and an inch in the wheelbase.

 

16v BX and ZX are particularly rare now, as are the 405's, though there are some standard trim 405's about still.

 

 

206's are ok if you want an ew engine, but the bay is designed for a 15 degree installation, or an upright tu, so an XU doesn't fit as easily, get a pre99 and they are not multiplex.

[Gaz205 50]

no, its a 205 subframe up front with a specific horizontal pull shock coil sprung beam.

 

On a berlingo?? Really?! That old tech to be still using!

[welshpug 1,666]

no, you quoted allye who was talking about the c15.

[wicked 105 3 Cars]

Come on! You won't build a turbocharged Mi16 and then put it in a van!!!

 

If you spend effort and bucks to build one, then also spend some bucks to buy a proper shell.

The only shells that are worthy to get an engine like that are; 205 GTI, 309 GTI (16), 405 Mi16 or Zx 16v....

[Type-R 3]

Xantia Activa

 

Pretty please

 

Also the 4G63t has identical bore spacing as XU/EW

So perhaps with a adapter flange you can use an EVO exhaust manifold and turbo

Plenty of them available cheap, just mount the engine vertically to make room

[Gaz205 50]

no, you quoted allye who was talking about the c15.

Gotcha, no, misunderstanding/mis quote there, thought allye was jumping on the van in general suggestion. Are the later vans on a 306 chassis out of interest

[welshpug 1,666]

not quite, bulkhead subframe and chassis legs/strut towers are 306, rear end is a 405 beam but 90mm taller, longer dampers.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Come on! You won't build a turbocharged Mi16 and then put it in a van!!!

 

If you spend effort and bucks to build one, then also spend some bucks to buy a proper shell.

The only shells that are worthy to get an engine like that are; 205 GTI, 309 GTI (16), 405 Mi16 or Zx 16v....

What's in a shell though? A V5 and some cut away arches? Makes zero odds to the end result behind the wheel.

[welshpug 1,666]

quote a lot in unobtanium wheelarch trims and bumpers for many!

[Gaz205 50]

A 305 van

I'm stuck on the van idea... Please do a van to show up these girly caddy vans

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

A van! Are you mental?

 

1 x Citroen Xsara VTS Mk 1 acquired in blue. It begins!

[Anthony 1,003]

1 x Citroen Xsara VTS Mk 1 acquired in blue. It begins!

Not the Stoke one on eBay? If so, you know that it's an Irish spec VTS (i.e 1.8) don't you and thus much closer to the UK spec VTR?

 

Not a major issue if you were just planning on junking the engine anyway, but I'm led to believe that they don't have normal VTS goodies like a quick steering rack and 21mm torsion bars either (I've never seen one of the Irish ones in the metal to check)

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yup it is. Engine being ripped out; may get a few quid for it I suppose. Only really interested in the shell.

 

A bit disappointed if it doesn't have that lovely 'quick' rack but was expecting to do things with the beam anyway (e.g. trailing arm swap as mentioned by Welshpug).

 

For £290 I thought it was worth it, even as just a motivator to get going on this project. Going to start a new topic under projects for this once I've assembled the engine kit. Tempted to consider Pulsar GTR bodies and plenum if they can be practically fitted, perhaps with a custom set of inlet runners.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

A van! Are you mental?

 

1 x Citroen Xsara VTS Mk 1 acquired in blue. It begins!

Yes, yes I am!

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

That's excused, as it's not as crap-looking as a Berlingo, Caddy etc.

 

I'm just pleased with a bigger engine bay and a more modern chassis, not necessarily a 'better' chassis. Plusher interior will be nice and it'll also be a bit of a sleeper I'd say, rather like a van....assuming there aren't a million heat exchangers hanging out the front!

[wicked 105 3 Cars]

Tempted to consider Pulsar GTR bodies and plenum if they can be practically fitted, perhaps with a custom set of inlet runners.

 

Won't fit easily. The bodies and 'manifold' are one piece and don't fit the Mi16 head. Tried it quickly when I had one at hand. Plenum is also not easy in a 205. The Xsara engine bay might offer more space for it.