Engine Cutting Out

[welshpug 1,661]

thats wanting more fuel then, though they dont usually run with it disconnected.

 

i'd be inclined to invest in a remanufactured afm to make sure its a known calibrated unit.

[mowflow 67]

ill do that. Any suggestions on suppliers?

 

Since this is an unknown I decided to crack this one open. I know I probably shouldn't have done that but my curiosity is what got me in this mess in the first place. Quite easy to set the spring a few teeth anti clockwise and get it running with the flap still shut at rest, I'm pretty sure the unit has been opened before. I know this doesn't mean much as no idea what the starting point was so I'm looking for a re manufactured one.

[DamirGTI 342]

or , find someone who has an wideband lambda sensor with the gauge/meter and adjust the AFM spring tension .. i did a few with succsess , if the potentiometer in the afm is still good and flap moves freely it can be done/adjusted

 

D

[welshpug 1,661]

ATP Electronics is the only company in the uk i know of.

[mowflow 67]

I'll look into ATP and I'll speak to my mate who owns a garage about the lambda sensor. Thanks you both for your help and advice.

[mowflow 67]

Spoke to ATP and got a price for a remanufactured AFM. Expensive month ahead so it'll need to wait.

 

Before I do fork out I wanted to see what you guy thought of something else.

 

So when I adjust the AFM so it does idle away happily I still get the car dying the minute I open the throttle. However, with the AFM disconnected it not only starts and idles fine (which I believe it shouldn't) it also revs absolutely fine as well.

 

Why would it/could it run so well with the AFM plug disconnected?

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Does it rev when moving or just when stationary

If not when moving it proves nothing-all your mixture screw is is an air bypass around the air flap, like your idle screw is an air bypass around your throttle butterfly-you could alter both to give engine enough air (and piss your neighbours off) but could it get you up a hill?

Under load is the only way you can be sure (like when I couldn't get twin 40s to work on a sunbeam a aargh)

[DamirGTI 342]

Tried to re-track the AFM ?

 

D

[mowflow 67]

Dragging this back to the top.

 

I was hoping I'd be posting about success but alas no. I got my remanufactured AFM back this week and the engine is still doing the same thing. Runs for a few seconds, then dies.

 

While waiting for the AFM I also changed the ignition amp for a Bosch one, the dizzy cap and arm as I've also got a dead rev counter now (the fuse in slot 1 is fine)

 

I'm honestly for torching this f***er.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

Hi , it might be time to go back to basics and check what you have as parts swapping is a possible cause of lots of problems and I have suffered from this myself . I could not see what CC GTI you have from your post but here are the correct Bosch part numbers for a 1.6 or 1.9 GTI ( all non cat type ).

AFM , 1.6 = 0 280 202 056 , 1.9 = 0 280 202 109

ECU , 1.6 = 0 280 000 340 , 1.9 = 0 280 000 359

Dizzys are different across the models but I only have the 1.9 type to hand = 0 237 009 066

TPS , water temp sensor and SAD are all the same .

The Bosch ECU's seem to be very reliable and I have never had a problem but it might be worth trying a spare if someone local has one you can borrow . If you can get your head around the Haynes manual wiring diagrams you can test all your sensors with a multimeter from the ECU multiplug under the drivers side of the dash , it will test loom , sensor and the connection between them . The Bosch sensor connectors are good quality and have a seal to prevent water ingress but damp can still get in through the rubber boot and corrode wire and female spade terminal . I have seen some right bodges with plugs cut off and those nasty crimp on red or blue spades fitted instead but assuming you do not have that I would still remove every plug and check for corrosion and that the terminal has not pushed back inside the plug .

From personal experience I would say 50% of throttle position switches/throttle butterflies are faulty or misadjusted and the very first thing I would do is check the TPS with a multimeter then if its ok set the click correctly .You probably have 2 or 3 problems , one which is causing the main issue and a couple which aren't helping matters . eg most vacuum advance capsules on the side of the dizzy are perished but they wouldn't cause this issue .

I recently made up a couple of fuel line adaptors to check fuel pressure and this can be an eye opener , I checked a friends 205 and his fuel pressure regulator was not holding pressure at all , we fitted a spare FPR and then got 3 bar with the excess bleeding off down the return pipe .Then an inline gauge can be fitted while the engine is running to check pump delivery pressure .

Don't give up on it , youll soon find the issue .

[mowflow 67]

Thank you for that info. The car is a 1990(H) 1.6. The AFM is the correct part number, as is the ecu. I suppose the ecu could have gone bad while out of the car. All the parts were fine before I messed with them. The dizzy is also correct for the model and I've not changed it, just the cap and arm and I went to great lengths to chase down the proper ones.

 

I'm going to see if I can work out how to check fuel pressure and try the carb cleaner in the inlet again to see if it is lack of fuel killing it. I know it's getting fuel and the injectors are firing but it does seem plausible it's not getting enough. My spark plugs were quite black and dry.

 

The other big mystery is why it runs with the AFM unplugged. Have I connected my loom and all plugs in the fuse box properly I wonder. I've checked the only ones I could have mixed up in the engine bay and all seems fine. I'm completely incompetent with electrics with no idea how to even use a multimeter but it looks like I'm going to have to learn.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Have you tested the coolant temp sender?

[mowflow 67]

Yeah. I tested that and replaced it back in February.

 

Think I'm going to give in and try contact an expert.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

If you use Google Chrome you can translate this page, it might be handy for you, the site has some great info on it.

 

http://www.dethomaso.fr/article-descriptif-chaine-de-commande-electrique-65777833.html

[mowflow 67]

Thanks, I'll have a read over that see if I can educate myself.

 

I'm starting to wonder if I have something somewhere connected up incorrectly as the same weird stuff is still happening with the rebuilt AFM fitted.

 

It runs with the AFM plug disconnected (which I've been told shouldn't happen). With the plug out I can have it idle away forever and can even tell the point the SAD is closing as the revs lower. However, if I try revving it, it dies (is it right to assume AFM has something to do with asking the ecu for more fuel at this point).

 

It'll also run and rev freely with a continual flow of carb cleaner in the breather while the AFM is connected. So I know it's not spark/timing/ignition based.

 

I can only then assume that when the AFM is connected enough fuel isn't getting through either due to something electrical/signal based or the pump or general fuel pressure not being high enough to match the air.

 

Edit. Oh! And the other thing is that my rev counter miraculously started working when the AFM was unplugged

Edited June 3, 2017 by mowflow

[welshpug 1,661]

there's no ignition wiring connected to the afm but it is in the loom so it would be an idea to pull the loom out and check its condition.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

have you ruled out/proved the TPS?

[DamirGTI 342]

Ditto , seems like you have something wrong in the wiring/loom ..

 

Is the AFM properly set/calibrated ? If you wish , try to experimente a little with the AFM spring tension - mark current position , then try and re-adjust the cog wheel 4 to max. 7 tooths on the either side and see what happens .

 

It will start with the AFM unplugged or unpluged and removed completely , but will run rich and will smoke a lot ..

 

D

[welshpug 1,661]

no need to touch the afm, its a remanufactured unit.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

I think it is possible to get the gearbox reverse switch connector and the water temp mixed up although the WT plug should be blue iirc - does your reverse light come on correctly .

Definitely sounds like a fuelling issue with the easistart keeping it running .

[mowflow 67]

Yeah, after spending £250 on the AFM I'm not going to mess with it.

 

The loom should be good as I sent it to Miles and paid to have it looked at.

 

I've managed to get hold of someone who knows their way around 205s who has kindly offered to come take a look.

[mowflow 67]

So it looks like it's the fuel pump. It's making nowhere near the required pressure.

 

Time for a search on recommended replacements that aren't too hideously expensive like the Bosch one from mister auto.

[welshpug 1,661]

how much are they? I wouldn't want to use anything else tbh, they last long enough too.

[Anthony 1,003]

I assume you checked the fuel pressure regulator is good?

 

Also, worth pulling the pump out and checking the short length of fuel hose inside hasn't split - it's not unheard of.

[mowflow 67]

There are 2 versions £200 - £300.

 

Ive not checked the pressure regulator but pressure was under 1bar on the fuel feed. It was Rab Elliott from pscuk that came round so a reliable gauge was used. He checked the wiring and ran a live feed direct to the pump and said you can even hear it's not right.