Engine Cutting Out

[mowflow 67]

So after fixing all the things I made an arse of while putting the car back together (jammed injectors, ignition timing, air leak). I finally got the thing running.... And not idling at 3k rpm.

 

The latest problem is that it only idles for about 10 or 20 seconds before ithe revs drop and it dies.

 

I did think it might be the coolant temperature sensor so changed that but no luck. A few people on the FB group said SAD but from what I've read on that any issues are once the car is warm. Mine is only running 10 seconds or so.

 

I've not set up the throttle stop, tps and the throttle and afm screws. I've got both screws wound in at the moment.

[DamirGTI 342]

Set the AFM bypass screw 7 turns out from fully in

Wound the throttle stop screw in untill it just touches the throttle leaver then turn additional 4 turns in from there

Set the throttle body air bypass screw 1/2 turn out from fully in

 

... an see what happens , could be it's 'starving' for air certaily you need them screws open not shut closing the air bypass passages , if it runs afterwards recheck/fine tune the throttle stop and air screws (AFM screw should be good @ 7-to-8 turns out)

 

D

[jackherer 543]

A few people on the FB group said SAD

If you ask someone about a 205 GTI idle issue and they instantly say it's the SAD you probably want to talk to someone else who actually understands 205s. Fortunately Damir has just given you a proper response.

[DamirGTI 342]

FB is just for spying other people ! i hate it !! the damn thing made 90% of forums 'redundant' .

 

D

[welshpug 1,661]

awesome post Damir, always struggle to remember those basic pointers as I rarely work on standard 205's these days!

[DamirGTI 342]

Thanks ! myself i'm mostly stuck with OE mechanics all the time thus i'm not so good with modified stuff !

 

Engine conversions are rare in my country cos it's idiotically hard to make one road legal documentation wise .

 

D

Edited February 16, 2017 by DamirGTI

[mowflow 67]

To be fair, it was someone from here who I believe knows a thing or 2 about 205s that commented on fb. It was probably my s*it description that was the issue.

 

It is a shame that forums are dying out. The resource here has been solely responsible for enabling me to transform a pile of bits into a differently shaped pile of cleaner bits the very nearly runs.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Just to clarify really as I'm not sure what you are expecting.

Unless everything is spot on, they will rarely idle through warm up without cutting out. If you Rev it with the throttle does it continue to run? If so it's almost certainly set up as described by Damir.

The most difficult bit to get right really is the transition period from cold to hot.

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

I sometimes wonder how I kept car going preinternet (badly with s*ite mpg probably!!)

Buying stuff from back pages of motoring news-by cheque, how'd that ever work

[mowflow 67]

Struggling to get out to the garage to give this a go. I'll report back tomorrow. I didn't really Rev it for any length of time before.

[mowflow 67]

Ok, sol lowed Damir's guide to the letter but unfortunately it's still the same.

 

The car started, idled at around 1k for 10-20 seconds then died. It then struggled to restart. I left it a minute or so and it restarted.

 

I then tried holding the revs up around 2-3k with the throttle to see if it would keep running. It still died.

 

When you first open the throttle the car almost and sometimes does die/sounds like a misfire. The TPS is turned so the it clicks when the throttle cable is pulled and clicks again when the cable isn't under tension.

 

Searching old threads here the possibles seem to be quite endless. My number 1 suspect is my timing belt being out 1 or 2 teeth out. Any easier things to check/replace first? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

[allye 530 3 Cars]

How does it run for the short while it is running? I doubt timing would be the cause as that affect it all the time not after a short period.

 

I'm inclined to say fuel pressure, any history on the pump?

[DamirGTI 342]

Starving for fuel or loosing the spark then ..

 

Try to force it running on 'easy start' spray , if it does idle for longer as you spraying/adding fluid then there's a fuel issue , if not , if it makes no difference then it's the spark issue .

 

D

[mowflow 67]

Would clamping the fuel return work to check if it was fuel pressure?

 

The fuel pump was working fine. But it has been sat for 3 years or something so probably not best to assume it's still fine.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

You got fresh fuel in there?

[mowflow 67]

Put in just before Christmas I think it was.

 

Pulled a plug out there and it was pretty sooty. A sort of thin film.

[DamirGTI 342]

Crimping the return fuel line would do if low fuel pressure is suspect , but if the injectors do not work/open or if theres an big leak in the system it wont do the trick ..

 

If it was three years since it was left standing , could be moisture - unplug all the connectors round the engine and spray with WD-40 , peel the rubber boots off the connectors and check the wiring underneath too .

 

All air and vacuum/breather hoses fine ? check the SAD hose which connects underneath the inlet manifold - this one can create an massive air leak .

 

Tried with known good spare ignition amp. and coil ?

Check the dizzy signal cable too - the black one with 3pin yellow plug on the end , loose broken or dirty/oxidized connection here will leave you without both the spark and fueling as well .

 

Tried advancing the dizzy ?

 

Personally id try first with an easy start spray as it'll do for eliminating either fueling or ignition side ..

 

Anyways , what is the background of this issue ? what have you been doing an engine rebuild ?or service/belt after which this problem developed ?

 

 

D

Edited February 17, 2017 by DamirGTI

[mowflow 67]

History is as follows...

 

The car was stripped for rust repairs. The engine hasn't been rebuilt as it was running fine, no smoke, funny noises and good compression. Only issue was a gearbox end oil leak so new seals were fitted there.

 

Although the engine wasn't rebuilt it was split from the gearbox, inlet manifold off, exhaust off, gaskets replaced, timing belt and water pump replaced, all hoses replaced with new, radiator replaced, loom stripped out and sent to Miles for refurbishment, new thermostat, injectors sent off for refurb and flow test, starter replaced, spark plugs replaced, HT leads replaced, fuel filter replaced.... That's all I can remember, I maybe did other stuff I can't recall right now.

 

I've had the plugs out before and checked for spark and they were all fine. I checked again a week or 2 ago as I had the inlet off to fix an air leak and again they were still sparking and compression good on all chambers.

 

I previously pulled the fuel rail with the injectors and found one injector was sticky from lying dry for a while following the refurb. This was stopping the car starting. A few smack with a spanner got it going and I've checked twice since and all are firing fuel.

Edited February 17, 2017 by mowflow

[DamirGTI 342]

Do you by any chance have an carb. inlet manifold gasket ?

This ond will block the injector tips .

 

D

[welshpug 1,661]

I would get those injectors cleaned if one was stuck!

[mowflow 67]

Im certain the gasket is the correct one. Pic below.

 

When the 1 injector was sticky the car just wasn't starting at all. Surely if one or all weren't firing then it either wouldn't start or it would be quite clearly running on 3 or less cylinders? When it starts it's definitely running on all 4 cylinders. I'll try get a video up.

 

[mowflow 67]

Took a few videos but can only get one to upload at the moment.

 

This is the car idling from cold. It took a few attempts to get started. You will see it runs for 20 seconds then just dies.

 

I did not touch the accelerator on this video. If I touch the accelerator it dies in the same way as it does at the end of this clip.

 

I have another clip where I squirt carb cleaner into the breather between the AFM and the throttle as it starts to die. This keeps it running. If I keep squirting it keeps running and revs cleanly when I open the throttle.

 

http://rs1120.pbsrc.com/albums/l486/mowat247/Project%20205/VIDEO0068_zps3cif4zul.mp4?w=160&h=160&fit=clip

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Sounds like its conking out with no fuel to me

Sure somebody else will know better lol

[DamirGTI 342]

Can't open the video .. have some stupid stone edge PC with linux

 

Anyway , if you can run it by adding fluid then that's proof that the spark/ignition side is fine and is the fueling which is problematic - not enough fuel to keep it running .

 

Is the AFM good ? do you have a spare one to try with ?

Try - push the afm flap crack open with screwdriver and start it up .. and see if you can make it running by manually opening the afm flap .

 

D

[mowflow 67]

If I push the AFM flap open from the air filter side it seems to run.

 

Seems it will also run with the AFM plug disconnected. It's lumpy, but it doesn't cut out.