Just Brought An Stdt - Looking For More Info On The Model And Car!

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

I imagine the power delivery would be quite different also! It's a lot less power isn't it? What's the handling like? From what i've read the STDT was meant to be effectively a diesel GTI, but how does it handle? I know the springs will need to be stiffer to take into account the diesel lump but does it keep a similar ride height? Presumably it's still springs and shocks on front and torsion bar rear??

 

Yes i'm missing a wheel cap already, I'll have to look into that - i think i'm going to have a go at 3D printing some in the future, hopefully if they turn out OK i'll use those and keep the genuine ones in the garage haha!

 

I have noticed the seats feel different, certainly a LOT stiffer than the fabia, god that's got sport(ish) seats but you breath on the bolsters and they bend...these dont, they're solid!

About 85bhp thereabouts but a big dollop of torque to help it lick along if kept in the sweet spot. Handling isnt too bad but they were more orientated to comfort rather than the stiff setup of the GTi. They are a very nice place to be for a long drive, I've always felt very comfortable in them.

 

My own GTi was originally a 1.6 and all the stdt 205 we had would give it a run for its money if driven like a complete a hole, which my brother usually did everywhere!!

[Gaz205 50]

I remember my local mechanic doing something with the turbo on mine, and then he said ..."you should go up hills a bit better now"

How I miss simple non ecu engines

[AaronMountford1990 0 1 Cars]

from memory the running gear is gti wishbones and arb, base model type hubs, 1.6 type driveshafts, 1.9 type vented discs and 1.6 gti type calipers, xs spec rear beam, gti spec rear drum brakes.

I'm not a suspension nut at all, so i'm not 100% sure what most of that does and what the impacts are of it being GTI or not, but it sounds like the GTI wishbones would stiffen the front end up along with the ARB, the base model hubs, not sure that makes any difference? (I COULD BE MAJORLY WRONG ), the 1.6 driveshafts are presumably lighter than base model but it doesnt have 1.9 versions as it's within the power transfer range of the 1.6 GTI?

1.9 vented discs, presumably because its near 1.6 GTI power but with a heavier front end, no idea why you'd use 1.6 calipers over 1.9 (anyone?) the rear beam, thats the torsion bar rear suspension isnt it? Never really read up on those, unsure on whether thats good or bad being an XS (to be honest im not sure what the XS is, was that a base(ish) model?

 

Yep, that's correct AFAIK - certainly it's not full GTi spec suspension, despite what some people claim.

I assume it's just part GTI to retain the comfort somewhat but give a bit of a sportier feel?

 

About 85bhp thereabouts but a big dollop of torque to help it lick along if kept in the sweet spot. Handling isnt too bad but they were more orientated to comfort rather than the stiff setup of the GTi. They are a very nice place to be for a long drive, I've always felt very comfortable in them.

 

My own GTi was originally a 1.6 and all the stdt 205 we had would give it a run for its money if driven like a complete a hole, which my brother usually did everywhere!!

Yeah i heard they are somewhat as quick as a 1.6, but the early phase 1 1.6, the reintroduction ones, ph 1.5 and 2 were higher power weren't they? It's good if they're comfy, the fabia isn't brilliant on long journeys, mostly due to the lack of lumbar support in the seats and the a*se bolsters being made from tissue paper, so you can feel the metal guards of the seat frame.

[Anthony 1,003]

I suspect that you're over-thinking the reasoning behind spec decisions at Peugeot - it makes more sense if you accept that they just made it up after a couple of bottles of plonk at lunchtime

 

GTi spec torsion and (especially) anti-roll bar coupled with some GTi or similar struts on the front makes a massive improvement - they handle quite nicely after that providing that everything is in good order of course (205's are very sensitive to tired/worn suspension components compared to many cars, to the point they can pass MOT's no problems yet be borderline dangerous to drive). They're not bad as standard of course, but you do notice the softness and the reluctance to turn-in compared to the GTi setup.

 

Having owned both, there's no way an STDT is anything like as quick as a well driven 1.6 GTi unfortunately, at least not as standard. After all, a 1.6 GTi has nearly 50% more hp and is a little lighter. The only real advantage is the accessibility of the power - it's all lazy mid-range grunt in the diesel whereas you need to work the gearbox and keep a 1.6 on the boil to get the most from it.

 

I say "as standard" as it doesn't take much to get some impressive performance from the TD engines - an intercooler and increased fuelling will see genuine GTi performance for example, with a larger turbo and fuel pump head you're looking at around twice the original output and a genuinely quick 205.

[AaronMountford1990 0 1 Cars]

I suspect that you're over-thinking the reasoning behind spec decisions at Peugeot - it makes more sense if you accept that they just made it up after a couple of bottles of plonk at lunchtime

 

GTi spec torsion and (especially) anti-roll bar coupled with some GTi or similar struts on the front makes a massive improvement - they handle quite nicely after that providing that everything is in good order of course (205's are very sensitive to tired/worn suspension components compared to many cars, to the point they can pass MOT's no problems yet be borderline dangerous to drive). They're not bad as standard of course, but you do notice the softness and the reluctance to turn-in compared to the GTi setup.

 

Having owned both, there's no way an STDT is anything like as quick as a well driven 1.6 GTi unfortunately, at least not as standard. After all, a 1.6 GTi has nearly 50% more hp and is a little lighter. The only real advantage is the accessibility of the power - it's all lazy mid-range grunt in the diesel whereas you need to work the gearbox and keep a 1.6 on the boil to get the most from it.

 

I say "as standard" as it doesn't take much to get some impressive performance from the TD engines - an intercooler and increased fuelling will see genuine GTi performance for example, with a larger turbo and fuel pump head you're looking at around twice the original output and a genuinely quick 205.

Quite probably yes! This would be the first project I've done in depth on a car, the fabia has only ever needed little bits doing - the majority of the work this year being to install reversing cameras, dash cams and sat nav equipment - it's not really on the same level as bringing a classic car back to life...!

 

So presumably the handing is "ok" in comparison to a GTI, it's certainly not GTI from what;s been said about the rear setup, but it should be better than a standard base model etc.? I'm hoping it's better than the fabia, it's handling is nothing short of awful, bags of body roll and too much weight on the nose..

 

It's ok if its not as quick, i've always wanted a 205 since i was little, and i did what everyone else did in looking at the GTI and going ..oooohhhhh aaaahhhh - then the CTI, but then i noticed the STDT a few months ago and thought it's more practical if i ever use it to get to work than going 40 miles each way in a GTI

 

I did think it was strange it's not intercooled, maybe its due to the lightweight nature of the 205, that and the engine block dissipates enough heat itself, i dont know....Ideally i want to keep it completely standard as they are nigh on impossible to find now, GTI or STDT that hasnt had any mods etc.?

[Anthony 1,003]

Don't worry, it'll handle far better than a Fabia in standard form - I'm not generally one for slagging off other peoples cars, but it's fair to say that the Polo based cars of that generation weren't VAG's finest hour when it comes to handling.

 

The lack of intercooler wasn't that uncommon on 80/90's era cars, and you quite often had the situation where you'd have two similar engines offered in two states of tune, one that was intercooled and one which wasn't. This was the era when you found "intercooler" badges proudly adorning the rump for car park kudos.

 

Oh, and I'm a masochist that happily does an 80 mile round trip for work in his GTi

[AaronMountford1990 0 1 Cars]

Don't worry, it'll handle far better than a Fabia in standard form - I'm not generally one for slagging off other peoples cars, but it's fair to say that the Polo based cars of that generation weren't VAG's finest hour when it comes to handling.

 

The lack of intercooler wasn't that uncommon on 80/90's era cars, and you quite often had the situation where you'd have two similar engines offered in two states of tune, one that was intercooled and one which wasn't. This was the era when you found "intercooler" badges proudly adorning the rump for car park kudos.

 

Oh, and I'm a masochist that happily does an 80 mile round trip for work in his GTi

That's a plus then! Yeah i never understood why they went for a polo chassis, with the VRS bumpers it sits as fat as a golf, i'm sure it would have been more stable on a golf chassis...

 

Ah okay, I don't suppose there are factory retrofits for the intercoolers? I know the fabia only has a SMIC which isn't very useful but i imagine on the 1.8TD a SM at that power level would improve things no end! Although i imagine most have been uprated with FMIC?

 

Geez 80ml in a GTI? What kind of fuel do you get for that? I end up going through about £50 of diesel a week travelling down the A50 from Stoke to Lichfield every day...

[Anthony 1,003]

The early 405 and BX had a intercooled version of the 1.8 TD engine, but as far as I know you can just fit the later 1.9 TD parts (or the whole engine) that are common in scrapyards. The top mounted intercooler (306 etc) does fit under the 205 bonnet, but doesn't get much airflow, so you're better off making a front mounted intercooler which most people do with a generic cooler and pipework adapted to suit. You should find some pictures on here if you search as there's quite a few turbo petrol or TD converted cars.

 

A properly setup GTi isn't actually that bad on fuel - my 1.9 will manage 4 days of that commute on a tank, averaging around 37mpg. Clearly that's somewhat short of a diesel frugality (my STDT was around 50mpg from memory) but pretty respectable for an 30 odd year old design of engine and fuel injection.

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

37 mpg???? Is it downhill?

 

Every time my car goes bwaaarp that's another 50p lol

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Having owned both, there's no way an STDT is anything like as quick as a well driven 1.6 GTi unfortunately, at least not as standard. After all, a 1.6 GTi has nearly 50% more hp and is a little lighter. The only real advantage is the accessibility of the power - it's all lazy mid-range grunt in the diesel whereas you need to work the gearbox and keep a 1.6 on the boil to get the most from it.I say "as standard" as it doesn't take much to get some impressive performance from the TD engines - an intercooler and increased fuelling will see genuine GTi performance for example, with a larger turbo and fuel pump head you're looking at around twice the original output and a genuinely quick 205.

I can guarantee you all 4 of ours weren't far off my 1.6 GTi. Whether they had been breathed on, I don't know but they all went bloody well and all ended up having to have headgaskets replaced while in our ownership. Maybe that's saying something......

[AaronMountford1990 0 1 Cars]

The early 405 and BX had a intercooled version of the 1.8 TD engine, but as far as I know you can just fit the later 1.9 TD parts (or the whole engine) that are common in scrapyards. The top mounted intercooler (306 etc) does fit under the 205 bonnet, but doesn't get much airflow, so you're better off making a front mounted intercooler which most people do with a generic cooler and pipework adapted to suit. You should find some pictures on here if you search as there's quite a few turbo petrol or TD converted cars.

 

A properly setup GTi isn't actually that bad on fuel - my 1.9 will manage 4 days of that commute on a tank, averaging around 37mpg. Clearly that's somewhat short of a diesel frugality (my STDT was around 50mpg from memory) but pretty respectable for an 30 odd year old design of engine and fuel injection.

Thats impressive!

Take it the 1.9 engine is the XUD9 is it? its an XUD7 in the 205 isnt it?

 

37 mpg???? Is it downhill?

 

Every time my car goes bwaaarp that's another 50p lol

That's how i assumed they'd run! My Fabia does something similar, you watch the range meter at like 300mile, put your foot down...280 - but i only did 1/2 a mile !

 

I can guarantee you all 4 of ours weren't far off my 1.6 GTi. Whether they had been breathed on, I don't know but they all went bloody well and all ended up having to have headgaskets replaced while in our ownership. Maybe that's saying something......

Replacing headgaskets? Doesnt that indicate they were a little overstressed?

[Gaz205 50]

The headgasket went on mine, it was around 115k and to be fair wasn't the best example when I had in in the early 2000's. Back then it wasn't an expensive fix and I don't think it would be today unless you cracked the block.

I'd be tempted with the obvious now and try and find a 1.9TD lump. Plenty of 306/zx/boxer van donors out there!

[GLPoomobile 958]

I can guarantee you all 4 of ours weren't far off my 1.6 GTi. Whether they had been breathed on, I don't know but they all went bloody well and all ended up having to have headgaskets replaced while in our ownership. Maybe that's saying something......

But how healthy was that 1.6 GTI?

 

When I got my first 1.6 many a year ago, I did some timed 0-60 runs (prob the only time I've done it in any car) to compare to my mates standard Civic 1.4 GL (which are 90bhp IIRC). His Civic was as quick or quicker. But we were both inexperienced, and I'm sure my 205 wasn't at the pinnacle of health. Granted I never went head to head with him down the road so dont know how they really would have compared from a roll off.

 

What was the point again?.......oh yeah, diesels......sorry, as you were ;-)

[welshpug 1,657]

quite, its very easy for a jetronic car to lose enough power to be slower than a fiddled with XUD.