Turbo Oil Return Ok?

[lahondal 17]

Hi all.

 

Im finishing a project of a 8v turbo rallycar, and im having a problem with the turbo feed/return.

 

The engine is a Xantia CT 2.0 8v, but have a Iveco 3.0 turbo, TD04HL-13T, in a custom top mount manifold, so i have to run the oil return line between 2 runners of the manifold. Megasquirt management.

 

The car starts fine and idles ok for a while, but after 5 or 6 starts, and without putting it on high load, it began to smokes badly and spit oil throught inlet and exhaust.

 

The oil feed is direct from stock feed hole, no restrictor, and the oil return its steel right after turbo, (leave pics) with a pair of bends and then go to a 16mmID hose that haves a little collapsed bend just before go to the stock return pipe in the block.

 

I bought a new CHRA to solve the problem, but my fear is to have the same smoke after put it on high load. Im going to run steel pipe in all the return and only leave a 2inch straight section of rubber right before the return in the block.

 

But, should I run a restrictor in the turbo feed? The engine is refreshed with new bearings, piston rings, etc, so I assume it have a lot of oil pressure on cold starts (it haves 6bar spring).

 

Need to buy the oil pressure sender, i have the gauge but the sender which came was wrong reference number.

 

I leave some pics.

 

Thanks for all.

[lahondal 17]

Well, i noticed that in the return line pic it seems that the turbo is tilted, but that pic is done on the engine stand, and the engine is vertical.

 

Mounted on the car the feed and return are on 12 and 6 o´clock positions.

 

Thanks!

[welshpug 1,661]

does sound like you need a restrictor in the oil line, the drain looks fine.

 

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Torques-U-K/_i.html?rt=nc&_nkw=turbo&_sid=81447352&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=2

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

If it's a CHRA with journal bearings again, you don't need a restrictor. Only if you have ball bearing now.

 

The return seems ok, but would indeed add some length to the pipe to avoid having rubber hose between the runner. It gets really hot there.

Also make sure you use PTFE (Teflon) hose for the oil return. The oil from the turbo can get really hot and will make 'normal' rubber hose fall apart after half a year.

 

Mine custom made with pressed PTFE hose.

​

 

 

Another note; move the air filter to a cold spot; it's getting too much hot air over there. (been there, done that, see diff on my air temperature)

 

Edit: smoking on idle can also be related to having a exhaust with very little restriction or just bad valve stem seals.

Edited December 1, 2016 by wicked

[lahondal 17]

It haves the valve stem seals renewed, the car runs ok at idle and the smoke is so that i cant see a wall at 1.5m throught it, if i rev the engine it smokes more.

 

Whats the regular pressure that a journal bearing turbo should have? 2.5/3bar?

 

I will make a longer pipe there, you are correct is not a good idea have runner there.

 

And the filter....i dont know how to pass an air pipe to that zone. The idea is make a heat shield all around the filter and make a bonnet scoop or hole that gives it fresh air...

 

Thanks for the help!

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Don't worry about the oil pressure; these turbo's run fine at engine oil pressure. I have a TD04HL-15T without restrictor, just like how they are used on the cars which have the turbo fitted from factory.

 

Regarding the inlet, my mate fixed it this way:

â€â€‹‹

 

Don't use a bonnet scoop.... #ugly

[lahondal 17]

Well, i have done another type of return line made from metal and a little piece of rubber hose (heat/oil resistant):

 

 

At the same time i changed the CHRA and seems to works ok, maybe the old turbo was simply worn and fail after some little work.

 

I started the car and leave it alone idling to get good temp.

 

Its only a safe map but I rev it a little to see how it runs and noticed that after the BOV whoosh i can listen a little turbo surge, in the video is not so easy to listen but definitely is a little turbo surge.

 

 

I have searched on the net and have readed that can be the BOV spring too tight, so Im going to search in the BOV box if it came with a softer spring and see if that helps...

[lahondal 17]

I checked the pressure in the turbo feed with a brand new mechanical gauge and i get 5.5bar stone cold. If i rev it a little it reaches 8bar! This afternoon i will check at operating temp. Can the relief valve not work properly in cold conditions?

 

Thanks!

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hey Iahondal,

Love your project.I think your oil return looks great and I think it sounds like the turbo oil seal is worn.wicked is rite,these turbos don't normally require a restrictor in the feed.To my knowledge it's roller ball turbos that use a restriction.

If it's leaking oil into the intake I would suspect the turbo seal.Not excessive pressure.Your description of the smoke sounds just like a bad seal.

 

At cold I think the oil PRV bypasses the filter and cooler and directs the oil straight to the mains.We take our oil feed in a "T" off the low pressure sensor switch.

Are you using a very heavy oil?. It's just that 8 Bar seems quite high....ish.

Your number 4 exhaust manifold gasket looks like it's leaking a little.

 

Really great project Iahondal.Keep it up and well done mate...Really like it.

All the very best

O.T.

Edited December 14, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

8 bar is a lot.. I could imagine that 8 bar in combination with a worn seal can cause smoke.

Could be that the valve in the oil pump is stuck?

Are you sure on the 8 bar reading? Does the pressure meter on the dash report the same?

[lahondal 17]

Yesterday i have left the car warming until it reach the operating temp and the readings were better.

 

At idle and 95º coolant temp it haves 3.5bar at turbo oil feed.

 

 

Accelerating it over 2500 cant see more of 6bar.

 

The turbo haves a built in "restrictor" (in the casting) of about 2mm.

 

I dont know if the relief valve can be stuck or similar. The engine sits about 3years in dry storage before i put it in the car.

 

Its common the oil relief valves of the XU10 get stuck?