Diesel Fuel In A Petrol Car

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Any idea what it might be called Calvin?

[welshpug 1,657]

snake oil

 

[welshpug 1,657]

I'd be looking at it with a view to just replacing the engine, is a 13 year old bini worth it?

[welshpug 1,657]

looks like it might be actually, 2-2.5k for a 100k miler.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Yeah WP it may come to changing the engine. Replacements aren't the cheapest at around the 400-500 mark, but I got the car for 850 so I have a bit of bunce if there are no other majors. It's 119k miles but in fairly good nick, (although bonnet/bumper could do with a paint), new brembo pads/discs all round, new coilpack, £450+ exhaust on it as well.

 

 

Hopefully the engine is ok and I'll have mine to try bits from if required, relays, coil pack, CPS etc.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

So I got the car tonight as planned.

 

I disconnected fuel pipe from rail and put into a bottle and jagged the pump, it's definately petrol.

 

I tried some easy start, but no joy.

 

It's a cold clear night, and there was plenty of white smoke and it seems to smell of petrol.

 

Not checked for a spark yet or the plugs, but I'm thinking the timing chain has skipped a tooth or two.

 

There is a little oil filled plunger on these engines that fills with oil and pushed a rail, which in turns keeps tension on the chain, sometimes these seize resulting in a slack chain, known as the "death rattle". If the rattle isn't noticed and attended to the chain can skip. I've already done the job on my other one, takes 10mins to do.

 

I'll check for a spark next.

 

What would I achieve in doing a compression test? There is no odd noises when trying to start it, would a compression test prove there is no valve damage? (Even with timing out)

 

I noticed the oil level is far too high too.

 

Will need to see how I can check timing I think.

[Anthony 1,003]

Compression test should certainly show up any valve damage bad enough to make the engine run as badly as yours is. You've certainly nothing to lose by doing it.

[welshpug 1,657]

I would check the timing first, granted, all the damage is done already if there is any due to being turned over (if the timing is out that bad) but doing a compression test with the timing out is a bit pointless.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Does the oil stink of petrol?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Does the oil stink of petrol?

Nope. I'm convinced it's the timing and have started dismantling it to get to the cam/chain, not an easy task! But I'm getting there.

 

If the timing proves to be ok I'll comp test it, then take it from there.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Would you say this is petrol or a mixture of petrol and diesel?

 

https://youtu.be/QUevkcpDjAg

 

It seems to burn very long and also feels a little greasy to touch. Also leaves a greasy surface when finished burning.

 

My timing is ok, my spark is ok, my plugs are black, and my comp tester is knacked.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Just thinking.

 

My compression tester is goosed, it read zero, i tried it on another running car and it still read zero. I had kitchen roll down the remaining 3 plug holes whist attempting the test and the kitchen roll was blown out the plug holes.

 

I'm almost certain i've proven the timing is ok today, and timing chain feels/looks tight.

 

The plugs i took out today (post Easy Start) were blackened, which i've now cleaned.

 

The spark i had today wasn't great but i'm thinking poor due to the battery. (originally fully charged but then ran lights for 15mins and a few turn overs trying with Easy Start).

 

There is fuel on the fuel rail (of some description, i've taken samples from the fuel rail whilst priming the pump.)

 

 

 

But i'm wondering why didn't i get something more with the Easy start the other night?

 

 

Anyone any ideas?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I wonder if the supercharger is fecked, this era of (pre teflon) car is known for it.

 

So i have

 

Timing - Looks to be ok

Spark - Weak possibly/likely down to low battery

Fuel - Smells like petrol, but feels greasy.

Compression - looks ok but inconclusive just yet.

Spark plugs - black dry sooted (prior to cleaning)

 

A few nights ago the Easy Start didn't make it start, the car felt as though it was wanting to start but never.

 

Could it be due to a seized charger/not enough air?

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

I would have thought it would at least idle if the charger was screwed, I doubt it would be seized as I guess the pulley is turning on the charger when cranking. As you have said I also can't see it being rings or head gasket because they will usually run but with the usual symptoms as you have already checked for. What colour was the smoke? Have you got access to any code readers to check live data? I think the early Cooper engines have a wideband o2 sensor (have 5 wires on them),I know the later ones do and when these fail they can make the car run like crap, black sooty plugs and black smoke out the exhaust. Another thing to look at is the coolant temp reading on live data, if it's reading incorrect (too cold) it could be over fueling but the plugs would be soaking wet and black,unless you pulled them out a while after running it they dried off.

Good luck.

[steve@cornwall 100]

How about clean plugs, disconnect injectors and try with easy start? If the fuel is contaminated it may be instantly fouling plugs??

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks chaps.

 

I've had it running today, albeit rough as a badgers, and it was like top of the pops with the amount of white smoke.

 

I emptied the tank and replaced with new fuel, there was a distinct difference in the colours. The old fuel was the colour of light piss, but the new stuff was clearish with a blue tint.

 

It ran but was really struggling. Ive had the plugs out various times, and tried a different coil pack too.

 

The plugs looked different, one was sooted after it run one was as though it hadn't run.

 

The charger seems to be ok, it spins and with the intercooler off I can see air/smoke being drawn in when starting.

 

I think I really need to do a compression test, and then maybe look at the injectors...... Would diesel cause detriment to them?

 

I'm not sure what to make of the fuel colours.

 

I'll give that a go Steve, good idea, and it might help confirm if fueling is the problem.

 

The smoke is very weird, absolutely loads of it and I mean loads, but it I don't recognise the smell, and the smell isn't strong at all. This made me think it could be some diesel in the tank.

 

I best check the water level again, I wonder if the white smoke made the guy think it was the HG.

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

If the smoke is white that does point to head gasket and iv done a couple on them, also if its pressurising change the heater matrix, the first one I did the matrix started leaking not long after and the second one I pulled the matrix and that was gone aswell. Would recommend a sniff test really, if you can't do that, you could try leaving the plugs out,leave it overnight then look in the cylinders for signs of coolant,ideally with the coolant system under pressure. If there was diesel in it, that wouldn't hurt the injectors.

[welshpug 1,657]

is the smoke a sweet steamy smell or an eye stinging choking one?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Disconnected injectors, pulled plugs to clean them, two were black, two spotless.

 

Used easy start, but it's just the same.

 

Compression test next, and then might have to look at timing again by dismantling oil pump etc.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Doesn't really smell WP, but there was tons of it. It still came out exhaust when I finished trying to start it.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

The car has been sat for a few months before I bought it too.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

This is the fuel I drained out, the water you see is from the water bottle I used, not sure where the dirt particles came from, maybe from inside the hose I used.

 

 

 

This is the new BP fuel straight out my Jerry can.

 

 

 

A distinct difference in colour, but perhaps variation in manufacturers? or the fuel going off while the car was sitting dormant?

 

 

I've borrowed another comp tester and will try again tonight.

 

 

If the comp test proves ok (which I think it will as the engine blew the rags out all plug holes), it'll hopefully rule out timing, and maybe gasket?

 

I've got two dry sooted plugs and two spotless (but smelling of petrol)

 

I'll need to check spark again, as the engine didn't want to start with Easy start.

 

What's my next move from there? crank/cam sensors?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Just a thought, would the Easy Start still work if the cylinders were flooded, I had tried to start it lots and lots before using it?

[steve@cornwall 100]

Are the 2 clean plugs next to each other? (Hg broken down between cylinders) Could well be a fair amount of water in the exhaust from attempting starts with blown hg, hence the smoke/ steam ?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Yes Steve, two are next to each other (3&4)

 

plugs are absolutely spotless but smell of petrol.

 

would you not expect at least some sort of combustion/colouring of plugs even if there was a HG leak between 3 and 4? even if it was catastrophic failure?

 

 

the water bottle level hasn't changed since I started messing about with it

Edited November 8, 2016 by dobboy