[Car_Upgrade] Yet Another Mi16 1.9 Build

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

A bit more work on the car today, so started by answering my own question about the sound deadening . Pedals, sound deadening and everything else afterwards. I also got the subframe and rack in position and began work of the front brake lines. I am using an AP pressure limiter for the feed to the rear brakes and a 405 master cylinder as my front calipers are not standard. I will post pictures of the completed front suspension when it is all on!

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I managed a few hours today and fitted the headlining, then assembled the front suspension and brakes. One more brake line to make up and I am ready to fill the system and hopefully get working brakes

Edited December 15, 2016 by Andy

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Brief update. Front and rear screens fitted,both new and both with new seals. I am glad that National windscreens were doing the job. I have done sereral screen fits, but the front one, with a new seal gave two fitters a hard time . Braking system complete but did not have time to fill with fluid, check and bleed, so that will have to wait until the New Year. Slight delay on the engine build. I checked the liner protrusion with feeler gauges and a decent straight edge and came to the conclusion that I hade too much, so back to the machine shop for block decking etc to get the protrusion bang on three thou. Conclusion to all this is that engine building over Christmas has ground to a halt.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Mega build there!

 

Who make the brakes? Look like a decent set of anchors.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I bought the discs and calipers from Pug1off about 18 months ago but did not get round to fitting them before I took the car off the road and pulled it apart. The discs are 283mm and fit under standard 15 wheels but the calipers needs a spacer to clear the inside of the rim. The calipers are Japanese , stainless pistons , radial mount and I have fitted Ferodo DS2500 pads. I am not a track day fiend but having used this compound on the road on a previous car I found them really good from cold and capable of some abuse in a heavy car ( Lancia Integrale) without fade. . How they perform I do not know but I am sure I will find out. I have an AP adjustable pressure limiter plumbed in to the rears which I used with my previous brake setup which was 283mm rotors with calipers from the 306 Hdi . To be fair, that system worked well but the calipers were pretty heavy . These new ones are much lighter and although 6 pot, the overall piston area is only a few percent greater than the Hdi pistons. Nevertheless, the 405 master cylinder is installed as I am not keen on lots of pedal travel.

[welshpug 1,661]

405 masters aren't big unless you mean 406?

 

and i didn't think thd Delta was heavy at all!

Edited December 21, 2016 by welshpug

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Integrale weighed in at 1360kg so no lightweight. The four wheel drive system added a lot of mass to the original delta shell. As for the master cylinder, I went to the 405 because it gave a bore increase of 2mm which in displacement terms just about offsets the increase caused by non standard front calipers. Certainly when I used it with the 306hdi setup the pedal travel was fine( i.e. Not too much)

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I stand corrected. I have looked at the box that the master cylinder came in( for some reason I kept it) bore is 23.6mm and is from a 406!!!!

Andy

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

A little more work on the engine today. Having had the rods and pistons balanced, the balancing company very kindly provided me with the equalised mass of each rod, piston and ring set separately so that I could combine to give each rod/piston/ring set to within 0.3 g

Anyway, a good scrub in hot soapy water, air dry with the compressor and then a dose of brake and clutch cleaner and I was good to assemble. I managed to get hold of a set (well, packet of 20) gudgeon pin circlips from Peugeot . I have not yet installed the rings as I have to check the ring gaps , for which I need the block and liners back from the engineering workshop.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

A little more progress on both the engine and the shell. The block was ready to collect today so I now have a clean block, decked , liner seats machined to give a liner protrusion of 0.06mm . Installed the crank to check main bearing clearances with plastigage . I got between 0.05 and 0.06mm . It would have been nice to have 0.05 on all five but I think it is consistent enough to proceed with the bottom end build.

As for the shell, brakes bled ( with surprisingly little aggravation) . Refitting the steering column gaitor was a little more time consuming but it went into place in the end. I then started to fit out the doors, starting with the drivers door. It is a long time since I pulled them to pieces so I could not quite remember the sequence. I thought I had better start with the wiring which, after stripping, checking, replacing some connectors and wrapping in new loom tape went back o.k. The locks are a bit of a fiddle but succumbed to trial and error. No pictures of this lot yet but I will post some next week

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

More engine work today. Crankshaft installed, ring gaps checked , fitted to pistons and pistons installed in liners. On the ring gaps, the first and second rings were absolutely spot on gap wise, but the oil control ring gaps were a bit tight, so needed relieving just by 0.2 mm to get them to the 0.3-0.5mm spec.

Big end bearings I checked with plastigauge and all four measured 0.05mm so again within tolerance. Crankshaft end float was 0.14mm so again within spec

Fitting the pistons in the liners was a real headache. For some reason my piston ring compressor would not stay square on the piston as it sat on the liner top, so eventually I cut a section from an old liner , then made two vertical cuts to produce two halves of a short cylinder which I could clamp together with a jubilee clip to act as the ring compressor. I guess the ideal would be to taper bore an old liner .

Anyway, a few pictures below .

[petert 588]

Old liners make great tapered ring compressors. I cut the bottom off, leaving 50-60mm of height and bore a slight taper to half way. I have various sizes, up to 87mm.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

If I do this job again, I will be off to the engineering workshop clutching an old liner and a drawing of what I want

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

More work today resulting in this.

Snag I have now run in to is that I am in need of a water pump gasket and one for the water outlet T piece that bolts on to the back of the block. The latter would be fairly easy to make, less so the former so I will see if the dealer can help. Frustratingly these are not included in the head gasket set.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

A little more progress in the form of getting the head on the block, so now another step closer to having a complete engine. I used the angle method for torquing the bolts, but in three 100 degree steps rather than one 300 degree effort. I set my torque wrench to 120Nm just to see what kind of torque value 300 degrees of twist might generate . Of course, I don't know as I got to the last 100 degrees without the wrench clicking, so I guess the final value is slightly lower than 120Nm. It is certainly more than 100Nm though!

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

More progress today. Timing belt installed , cam covers etc. After I had finished the belt, I then set up my dial gauge to mark true tdc on the flywheel. I used the Tdc marker from an 8v engine( it needs small mod to clear the cam sensor teeth on the flywheel) and then marked the flywheel at true tdc using degree disc , dial gauge etc. Then I set the gauge onto no 1 inlet cam and found full lift. To my delight it was 108 degrees atdc, just as I had hoped as I am using a no2 cam wheel in the exhaust and a no4 on the inlet.

Just one query regarding tdc and its position on the flywheel relative to the missing tooth. I have read elsewhere on this forum that tdc is 114 degrees from the missing tooth. I get more like 72 degrees( 12 teeth) . What am I missing?

[petert 588]

see attached, the crank angle sensor is before the TDC marker, thus in terms of engine revolution, picks up the event earlier.

Edited January 22, 2017 by petert

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thanks for the diagram. Yes, but that looks like 12times 6 = 72 degrees before tdc, which is what I have measured. What puzzled me is that elsewhere on this forum I am sure I have read 114 degrees. Important in the sense that my ecu will need to have that correct value in its settings,

Andy

[welshpug 1,661]

114 is the value in my ecu.

[petert 588]

12.5, TDC is in the middle of the trough between the tooths 12 and 13.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thanks both. So it is 75 degrees on the flywheel or 114 if one is telling the ecu. One of them will work in the ecu and I know I have an accurate tdc setting , so I will stop worrying

[psclarkson90 0]

The liners I have are specially for the Mi16 and are in ductile iron, bore 83.00mm. I have been in touch with Westwood to clarify the fit. They have checked and confirmed that the outer diameter on the lower part of the liner should be 88.6 mm (they are ) and that this measurement coincides with the o.e spac, the spec from Mahle and Goetze. He also told me that they have sold at least 35 sets of these liners from the same batch as mine with no reported issues. I will try parking the block in the front room for half a day and see if warming it slightly is enough to allow the liners to drop it. Failing that, a very light hone of the block, avoiding the seat area will probably do the trick.

i bought a set of them about 2 years ago had exactly the same problem, got the same response too i ended up getting confirmation that grinding them down to fit would not void any warranty which they were ok with

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Phew. Thanks for that. A few minutes with a file was the only way liners one and four were going to fit into the block. I think that had I bought the 1.9 8v liners from them rather than the 16v ones, there would not have been a problem. However, there are in and will hopefully give me long and good service

[petert 588]

Don't understand. 8V and 16V liners are totally interchangeable between 8V and 16V blocks.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Ah yes. Unless you get Westwood ones, as their 8v and 16v liners are not the same. The 16v ones , whilst not looking like a pineapple as per the o.e ones, have a larger and thicker 'flat' machined on two opposing faces than the 8v ones. As a consequence, the edge of this flat where it blends into the curve of the rest of the liner just catches the bottom cm or so of the block on the end walls . The second minor snag was that the bottom of the liner is not stepped as the o.e one is, so is a very close fit into the bottom of the block. I found that I could get them to fit if I warmed the block in hot water first, but then had difficulty removing them. Plan 'b' was some gentle work with 120 grit inside the block below the liner seat so that the liners would just ease in to place if the block was at room temp. It was still slightly tricky to get them in place. Any minor offset and they stuck half way down.

I did contact Westwood who kindly checked the liner dimensions against the o.e spec and confirmed compatibility. However, as stated above, the real snag was that , unlike the o.e. ones , these Westwood liners are not stepped below the liner seat but are machined at one diameter right to the bottom lip of the liner, this diameter coinciding with the largest diameter of the o.e.ones which occurs just below the seat. That is why the o.e. ones drop in so easily by comparison.

Well, that was my take on it anyway. All in all, they are very nicely made but a bit of a hassle to fit.