[Car_Upgrade] Yet Another Mi16 1.9 Build

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Yep. That is the plan. Just had a great drive back from the velodrome in Derby. It is a joy to drive, and the noise is intoxicating, and that is with an airbox.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

P.s And they both lived happily ever after . The End

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Err. Not quite. A brief interlude with some much needed bike maintenance ( cassette, chain, bottom bracket bearings ) I thought that , now the car has done a few hundred miles I would pop it on stands and do a nut and bolt check. All,fine except for an elegant coating of engine oil on the nearside front suspension and wheelarch. Hmm. Traced the leak to the front seal. So,covers, belts etc removed and I discovered that the oil seal was a loose fit in the housing . It pulled out easily. Anyway, I had a spare Payen one and, just before fitting, did a quick comparison . The only difference is that the one that almost fell out (Victor Reinz) had a plain outer circumference whereas the Payen item has fine ribs . Needless to say the new one needed a suitable drift to get it in, so shows no sign of becoming loose. Then the mare of fitting and tensioning the camshaft belt began. Last time, the engine was on a stand. Easy peasy. Not any more . Access is somewhat limited, he said ruefully . It is a struggle and as I type the job is not finished, but the belt is in and tensioned, but it is much harder to do the 45degree twist check on the front run so I am less confident that the tension is absolutely correct . I also, carelessly, allowed the cams to move slightly ( a locking pin fell out without me noticing ) so I had a heart in mouth job moving the exhaust cam and hoping that I did not make any valve to valve or valve piston contact.

Busy day with some physics teaching so hope to finish the job this evening and pray that all is well.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

The power of prayer! Done. No nasty noises. Compression good on all cylinders . I did the belt a bit tight so had to back it off slightly having heard the engine running. Not the best way to tension a cambelt . Once one gets the hang of it, a cambelt change in situ is not too bad, but I do have some sore knuckles. Oh, and no oil leak as far as I can see. Only a good drive will find out I'd all is o.k, so trip to the Velodrome in Derby tomorrow should do the trick

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The belt isn't too bad in a 205. Believe it or not it's actually much more difficult when the engine is in its native 405! Despite the larger body there certainly seems to be less room down the side in the 405!

It helps with access if you remove the alternator and engine mounting bracket, but in honesty I don't bother these days as it adds time to the job and isn't 100% necessary.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Hi Tom. I read your posts elsewhere about moving the alternator and mounting, but managed without. Now I have the hang of it, top mounting bracket off, throttle cable detached and there is enough space to get the cover off. The rest of the job is from underneath . However, from what you have said, glad I do not have a 405Mi16!

[Anthony 1,003]

Pain about the seal after all that work and trying to do things properly - always frustrating when branded parts don't actually fit properly, especially when it's then a chunk of work to subsequently sort out.

 

Still, done now - now enjoy the fruits of your labour

 

Believe it or not it's actually much more difficult when the engine is in its native 405! Despite the larger body there certainly seems to be less room down the side in the 405!

You're right - I couldn't believe it when I did the job on a 405 Mi after having only done converted 205's previously. I expected it to be a breeze with loads of space, but there was unquestionably less space between the engine and chassis rail, to the point that I had to cut down the tool I'd been able to use on 205's without issue because it wouldn't physically fit.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Yes. The front oil seal failure was a real frustration. The only snag now is the cam belt tension which is harder to assess in situ. . I am still not sure I have it tensioned correctly.... think it is a touch tight.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

If the belt is too tight it will whine when the engine is hot. If it doesn't whine then it's ok.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Cheers Tom. A slight whine at 2000rpm but it does not change not or cold. I took the cover off again after a long drive on Thursday and checked the belt when cold. It was definitely not too tight, and having one slack is disastrous , so I think it is o.k

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Suspension update. As you may recall dear reader, I fitted some rather inexpensive GaZ coilovers. I discarded the supplied 8" 250lb/in springs and replaced them with a pair of 10" 140lb/in ones. Ride height fine but not quite enough suspension travel . So, I am now using 12" 130lb/in ones which give a very decent ride overall, enough suspension travel to deal with Derbyshire potholes and an o.k ride height. I am sure that on the track they would be way too soft but this is not a track Day weapon , rather an everyday road car. I really do think that this combination is actually better overall than the O.E gti stuff that I had originally. The damping on these GAZ units is rather crude, and having something that was adjustable on both compression and rebound independently would be a big improvement, but you get what you pay for.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Just a pat on the back from me. Great write-up and you're definitely braver than me, doing some jobs I wouldn't touch.

 

Depending on the rollers, I'd be a little surprised at 171bhp. That's perhaps a modest reading, as I'm sure PeterT would say 180 is achievable with cam and a 10.8:1 CR lift but just on a standard inlet. I'd expect bodies to walk past 180 TBH. Put those things together and you're in the 190-200 range like me and JackH plus.

 

I'm not being negative, but I think there may be more oomph to be had with what you have; it's hiding somewhere.

 

If you go iron block and 2.2L with a cam and maybe 11:1 CR or greater, you'll have a 240bhp+ beast which'll give you a grin bigger than a Cheshire cat.

 

Thanks for all of your pictures and help with my Xsara project, and keep us informed please.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Afternoon,

I have not been back to the rollers yet with my Miles Horne Manifold, but expect that it will have at least smoothed out the dips in the torque curve and may have released a bit more power. I take your point about more to come, even though it has standard cams. I suspect that if I spent a few days at Emerald there would indeed be improvements . However, it is a hoot to drive as it is , despite disgracing itself today with a loose wire on the alternator which stranded me on the A46 ( which is where I was when I spoke to both you and Steve).I am also about to try a set of Bilstein B6 challenge struts with Eibach 4001 springs as a direct comparison with my GAZ GHA s . Once that experiment is over, I will have some front suspension to sell, just not sure which yet.

I hope that Steve was able to help a bit . Just a thought here , but given that Steve’s workshop is 15 mins from me, and that I regularly

Go to Rugby ( mother in law) , perhaps if you could do a deal with Steve, either for the engine or crank and head, I could pick them up and get them to Rugby, which is a bit closer to you.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You're a legend Andy. I'm speaking to Steve on Thurs & pending head inspection am now sorted, with crank options from him & (another legend) our Anthony.

 

Enjoy what you have. Fix the gremlins. Perhaps remap with Miles' exhaust manifold & hoon the b*stard.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Suspension update . Raining and windy so bike stayed indoors. Only one thing to do and that was to fit my Bilstein B6 challenge spec struts with Eibach 4001 springs . No phoptgraphs I am afraid but , as they were second hand ( but hardly used) I pulled them apart and had the strut casing powder coated ( yellow) before putting the dampers back in . Interesting first drive as a direct comparison with the GAZ ( 130lb springs) that I was using. Two observations. The springing is, if anything, slightly softer than the GAZ but with more suspension travel . The damping, however, is much superior . I can see why so many people on here have recommended this setup for road use . Very compliant but excellent suspension motion control. Yep. Pretty pleased, despite that fact that the front is now a cm lower than it was this morning .

I had better take some photographs and put the GHA’s in the ‘for sale ‘ section

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Hate to say I told you so!!!

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

You really enjoyed typing that Tom. Oh, while you are on. Derbyshire contingent of 205 owners still meeting on the third Monday of each month at ‘The Highwayman’ on the Chesterfield-Baslow road

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I did try to tell you but you were set on trying your own route. Man after my own heart, as I'd have had to find out for myself too.

 

Yes Derbyshire meet is typically 3rd Monday from around 8pm at the Highwayman.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thanks for that. I will try to get over next month. Yep. I did . And they are not bad. On my previous car, I used some GAZ golds with Eibach composite main and progressive springs and the whole setup worked really well. The experiment was worth it, and I learned a lot .And yes, the overwhelming view on here was that for road use, the B6 dampers are hard to beat. I have just joined that view. Not quite sure about the spring rate, but they are not too expensive to replace if I decide I want something a bit stiffer. If I go to an iron block engine, I most certainly will do .

Oh. Almost forgot with my excitement about the front. At the back I have, wait for it, GAZgha adjustable . The back is not right! Bilstein B6 rear dampers? This time, I will do as I am told

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I encourage doing as you're told just as much as going you're own way.

 

If you must try something new or just for yourself, perhaps in spite of advice or even warning to the contrary, you should go with your gut and do it.

 

Anyone doing this is not necessarily stupid; they may be, but they may also be risk hungry/happy to fail/a pioneer.

 

There being no gain without pain is a fair comment, especially if it's not feasible to get someone else to endure the pain....but someone usually has to.

 

To those who are brave enough, I salute you.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Addendum to the front suspension story. The 7001’s are excellent but I remained unhappy with the ride height. Just a bit too low for my liking. Several long chats with Eibach technical staff later and their conclusion was the 7003-120  which is a bit stiffer and would up the ride height by 10-12 mm 

Well, they arrived on Friday and I fitted them yesterday but did not get the opportunity to try the car out. Rectified that error this afternoon. Ride height increased by 10mm to what I now regard as ideal( ground to wheel arch trim  vertically through the wheel centreline is 60.5cm ) . I found it a bit difficult to decide if it was much stiffer. Objectively I know it is , but beacuse the dampers (B6 challenge) do such a good job of controlling the spring, the slight increase in stiffness is harder to appreciate . Initial turn -in feels more immediate but  overall ride seems unchanged .

 7001’s on the ‘for sale ‘ section of the Forum

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Update. Rather foolishly, My 205 and I got into a fight with a Range Rover a week last Monday. It was a short fight . We lost very early on in round one . A very nice gentleman from the Insurance company visited me and the poorly 205 on Wednesday ( yes, breakdown got it home but with one front corner of the car missing , it was not easy) , looked at the car and decided that it was terminally ill. I think that the ripple across the roof, the distorted drivers door frame and the sill shaped like a banana probably influenced his judgement , not to mention the intimacy between the engine and the bulkhead. 

You might like to pause for a moment to imagine my language ( Under pressure, my Anglo-Saxon is pretty good) , my feelings ( a little disappointed ) but my relief at the fact that at least no one was hurt . I did pop down to the Peugeot dealship in Derby to get a new shell, but they are out of stock , and are not sure when the next lot are coming. One of the staff might have used the word ‘never’ . ( I did not go really, but one can dream) 

So. Now . What to do. The car had an agreed insurance value and the company ( classicline) are happy for me to buy the car back from them, or so they have led me to believe , so I have all the bits I need, bar a few items like a driveshaft, hub, wishbone , probably a rack and the odd sundry item. I could look for a really good 205, either 1.6 or 1.9 and transfer all my mechanical bits , selling on the standard items, or look for another shell in good nick and start again . The latter route is quite effort intensive , but could be an option. 

I have not included photographs. I think that would be morbid !!!!

Andy

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Sadly I heard about this last night from one of the lads at the Derbyshire meet. Sorry to hear this news as I know how much time and effort you had put into the car, Glad however you are OK and able to tell the tale. I'm sure you will be able to lay your hands on a shell without too much hassle.

[barneys66 123 1 Cars]

Gaaah - terrible news !!  Likewise though, as above glad you're okay.

 

Let us know how you get on with the insurers, as here's where they earn their money..

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thanks chaps. Yes. I will advise you all on the insurance outcome . As for a good shell, I have not started looking yet , not in earnest anyway as that is just one of the possible options..