[Car_Upgrade] Yet Another Mi16 1.9 Build

[petert 588]

If it were mine, I'd fit an XU10 A/C sump. They're fitted to almost everything. So cheap and cheerful. You'll need to extend the pump by 13mm then however. I'm not trying to talk up my own solutions, as there are plenty of options. I'd also fit an XU10 windage tray whilst I was there. Either extend the mains bolts or use new ribs (as I my web site, sorry it's down at present).

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you Peter. Yes. I read your ' oil surge plans' on your site a few days ago. On Friday I am off to look at a pair of complete XU10 engines that are for sale at low prices as they have been stood outside for a couple of years. I am hoping that one of them will have the sump I am after along with a few other useful bits.

Oh. Valve guides. Expert guidance from none other that Guy Croft of Fiat/Lancia twin cam fame who looked at my guides, then asked if I was building a full race engine. When I said not, his judgement was to lap the exhaust valve seats , as the exhaust guides were o.k and fit K line inserts to the inlets, although he felt that even they were not bad, certainly no where near bad enough to replace.

So the head might not be quite as expensive as I had feared. He also commented that someone had been busy with the porting and had done a good job. Unfortunately, the same could not be said for the valve seat fitting which had left the inlet valves badly shrouded at low lift. Fortunately, that is not too difficult for me to remedy . I will take a detailed photograph to show what I/ he means

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Valve shrouding

[welshpug 1,661]

looks like they've been cut back quite heavily, checking spring installed heights might be wise

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Yes. They have. Petert has given me the guidance on checking installed spring heights to make sure I get the correct load on the valve at zero lift. It is also the reason why replacing the inlet guides is now not advised as a seat recut would be required,uncutting even further . A shame really as the porting has been done well; odd that the seat replacement was not of the same standard..

[welshpug 1,661]

They're new?!

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Yep. The seats have been replaced at some point. I went along to the engineering company who are doing the crank balance for me clutching my cylinder head and valves. They confirmed that the valves were fine, the guides were showing signs of wear and the valves were shrouded at low lift. Their plan is to use K line inserts for the guides and then recut the seats with a clever machine they have that can radius the area immediately beyond the seat as it blends ( or doesn't currently) into the chamber. So, I am going to leave it with them . They did agree that If I was not happy with the outcome they plan, they would replace the valve seats and start again. I hope that will not be needed.

In the meantime, I thought I would start a nice easy job and check the liner protusion in the block of my new ( and expensive) Westwood liners. Why is nothing straight forward? Liners are such a close fit in the bottom of the block that I cannot get them to drop in cleanly. I am sure that if I heated the block they would walk in, but getting them out again would be a nightmare. . I have cleaned the inside of the block where the liners fit with scotchbrite, but that has not given me sufficient clearance. My next thought is some 240 grit wet and dry on the lower part of the outside of the liner to see if that will fix the problem. Thoughts anyone?

[welshpug 1,661]

https://flic.kr/p/HsFQSZ

 

thats the 3 angle job my local guys did with their serdi machine, hard to see but the 3rd angle cutter has done a nice job in the port smoothing it out.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

That is a good job. I will be delighted if mine turns out that well

[petert 588]

It's impossible to get a proper 3 angle cut on the inlet with a standard size valve. The ID of the seat is usually always too big to begin with. Only by going to a larger valve do you create the correct geometry.

 

I would spin the liners up on a lathe and rub with 240 etc. That area does nothing to seal. It's probably easier than sanding the block.

Edited October 19, 2016 by petert

[petert 588]

like this

Edited October 19, 2016 by petert

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Thank you. Yes, the three angle seat is clearly visible . Lovely job. I will give Westwood a call this morning just to check that they intended their liners to be larger in diameter in that area by 0.8 mm. Using a lathe on the liners is one option, but I would need to get that done at a machine shop as I do not have a lathe. The other option that occurred to me was to hone the bottom of the block, particularly the first 20 mm as the internal diameter is smaller there than it is for the rest of the bore . As long as I do not touch the area at the top where the 'o' ring seals against the liner I should not cause any sealing issues?

[petert 588]

Either, or, but keep in mind the liners are wrong, not the block. Just don't touch the liner seal area.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Thank you. Yes, the three angle seat is clearly visible . Lovely job. I will give Westwood a call this morning just to check that they intended their liners to be larger in diameter in that area by 0.8 mm. Using a lathe on the liners is one option, but I would need to get that done at a machine shop as I do not have a lathe. The other option that occurred to me was to hone the bottom of the block, particularly the first 20 mm as the internal diameter is smaller there than it is for the rest of the bore . As long as I do not touch the area at the top where the 'o' ring seals against the liner I should not cause any sealing issues?

 

Did you just order the Westwood Mi16 liners of the shelf?

Did you note that they are 83.00 diameter (For pistons of tolerance A) and not 83.01 (for most common tolerance 'B' pistons).

 

Opticaltrigger did use Westwood liners as well for his build, but requested for 8v liners (custom order) and don't think he had issues with fitting the liners in the block.

Edited October 20, 2016 by wicked

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

This now has me wondering about my liners as I haven't trial fitted them yet, although I have 83.5 ID but they would just hone them out the external would be the same....

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

The liners I have are specially for the Mi16 and are in ductile iron, bore 83.00mm. I have been in touch with Westwood to clarify the fit. They have checked and confirmed that the outer diameter on the lower part of the liner should be 88.6 mm (they are ) and that this measurement coincides with the o.e spac, the spec from Mahle and Goetze. He also told me that they have sold at least 35 sets of these liners from the same batch as mine with no reported issues. I will try parking the block in the front room for half a day and see if warming it slightly is enough to allow the liners to drop it. Failing that, a very light hone of the block, avoiding the seat area will probably do the trick.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Update. Warm kitchen for half an hour was enough for the liners to drop in. However, I now know why the o.e ones drop in much more easily; Peugeot machined the part below the seat on three different diameters, the largest one nearest the seat coinciding with the measurement on the Westwood liner, but only extending for about 20 mm. The rest of the o.e liner is on a slightly smaller diameter, which significantly aids installation. God bless Peugeot.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I went to look at a couple of XU10 engines on Friday and ended up buying one of them . Acquired all sorts of useful bits including a baffled sump with wind age tray and the extended mains bearing cap bolts the support the tray. What I had not expected was to be offered a brand new Mi16 alloy block complete with oil pump, water pump, crank ( but no rods or pistons) a bare head with new cams but no valves or lifters and sundry other items including an engine mounting, front crankshaft cover , bolts, plugs, dowel,pins etc. Anyway, bought the lot so I now have a surplus of alloy blocks , a choice of XU 9 and XU 10 heads and sundry other items. I had better spend some time in the garage tomorrow sorting out exactly what I plan to use !

[petert 588]

A pleasant dilemma. The extended XU10 mains bolts won't be any use to you XU9 (M12 vrs M11). You will either have to make new ribs for the tray, or TIG on some extensions to your XU9 bolts.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Bother! Thank you . Well. That is a plan that has been foiled.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

A little progress today after lots of cleaning and prep work . Oil spray bars and a couple of oil gallery blanking plugs installed

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

That looks awesome and very clean, did you have the liner seats recut?

 

How are you measuring the liner protrusion out of interest? I've seen the rebuild manual is a flat plate with depth gauge but I was going to use a precision straight edge across the liners and feeler gauges to the block, not sure if this is the right procedure.

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I used a precision straight edge and feeler gauges . As for the liner seats, scotchbrite and elbow grease, although to be fair, the inside of the block was pretty clean to start with. Then I gave the block a thorough wash in Jizer, with long thin brushes for the oil holes and main oil gallery, followed by a bath in very hot soapy water , followed by an airline, followed by brake cleaner and the air line again.

I am now waited for the crank, rods and pistons to come back from the engine balance firm and the head from the machine shop ( skim, valve guides and seat recut)

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

I visited the body shop today to look at progress. Nearly ready for primer which means I will be able to spend a couple of days over there doing all the seamsealing and painting the underside with epoxy mastic . I should have a complete shell by Christmas!

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Looks like lots of filler but in fact, very little. Just that Neil( the body man) found lots of little dents that he wanted to fix.