2.0 Mi16 Head On A Different Aluminium Block?

[layton1985 5]

Hi I think I read somewhere that someone had a 2.0 mi16 engine but swapped the iron block for an aluminium block to save weight? But it wasn't a aluminium mi16 block it was a block from another engine? Am I mixing different stories up and have this wrong or is this possible? I also think in the same thread he changed the crank to make it larger capacity for more torque etc and a few other clever tricks that produced more bhp and power for very little money as he knew what he was doing.

[TAG 25 1 Cars]

It could possibly of been an XU7 block.

[layton1985 5]

Thanks for that mate, I think that's the 1.8 petrol s6v engine which come in a lot of peugeot and citreon cars, will it be 1.8 capacity still or is there a sneaky crank swap that changes it to a higher litre? More torque etc? Been a while since I've messed around with 205's in depth, forgot a lot of stuff.

[TAG 25 1 Cars]

Yes, that's the 1.8 engine, but it has an 83mm bore, which means 1.9 mi16 crank, rods and pistons fit.

 

I recently bought a complete 1900 Mi engine that I will be stripping and rebuilding when I find time, if the block is goosed, I'll be building it up using a spare XU7 block that I have.

Hope that helps,

Tom

[layton1985 5]

Thanks for the advice mate, never done a full engine rebuild before I've have one out and replaced all gaskets and water pump etc but never taken out the piston or touched the liners, I wasn't confident at the time n heard horror stories (probably off people that had never done it themselves) and it pit me off touching them.

 

I'm gonna have the head and block cleaned a garage near me does it in a big dish washer style cleaner but I hear people saying they have had their's acid cleaned or dipped oor something along those lines? Is that a better approach or does it not really make a difference? If you have experience in that kind of field.

 

Thanks again

[layton1985 5]

Just a quick questing as I don't have a mi16 block or the internals, how am I best to go about creating a aluminium 1.9 or higher block? Without spending £1000 plus on a race block, it's only a project I want to take my time on and get as mint as possible, thanks guys

[welshpug 1,657]

you can go +0.50 overbore which iirc will take you to 1930cc instead of 1905cc, quite a few pistons available in that 1st oversize diameter.

 

if you want to chase cc then iron block and diesel cranks are the way to go, the bigger you go the more you need to spend to achieve it.

[petert 586]

I've done 84.00 x 88 without any problems.

[dcc 855]

why not ew10

[layton1985 5]

Thanks for the replies, thing for me to think about here is I'm stripping it right down, like anyone would ( I should think) I want to do the job once so if I can go to 2.1 for example in my xu ally block that would be ideal, the extra torque will help as I have boddies and omex 600 (that I've had 6 years and not used)

 

I read a post the other day with a few crank and piston variations but they all used iron blocks, I want the car to be as light as possible without ripping any interior out etc, sticking with 205 brakes with uprated pads and disks etc I have brembo and 180 brake setup but ditching the idea, cars twice the weight of the 205 only have slightly larder brakes, I don't think it's warranted.

 

Petert have you done that on an ally block? What cc does that get?

 

I have a 206 gti 180 engine in the garage buy that's for the 309 when I've finished this 205

[layton1985 5]

I have 2, 2.0 mi16 engines but because everyone has always preferred the 1.9 ally I've got it in my head it's no good, too heavy and not as quick, should I stick with the full engine and tune this instead of looking for an ally block.

 

Should I just tune the mi16? As in lightened and balanced bottom end after sourcing the right over bore kit?

[Anthony 1,003]

I have 2, 2.0 mi16 engines but because everyone has always preferred the 1.9 ally I've got it in my head it's no good, too heavy and not as quick, should I stick with the full engine and tune this instead of looking for an ally block.

 

Should I just tune the mi16? As in lightened and balanced bottom end after sourcing the right over bore kit?

There's nothing wrong with the 2.0 Mi16 and if anything it's a better base for a high power build than the 1.9 is. It's heavier certainly, and that does bother some (me included), but it's otherwise effectively a higher capacity version of the 1.9 with the benefits that brings.

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

I'm not an expert in the slightest but would it be a case of what hp / torque you are looking to attain rather than which is better? The ally being less durable in standard form but can be upgraded more expense. Also as Anthony said the iron block being heavier does it make all that difference to the handling and stopping power?

 

I think the determining factor is what sort of power you are after.

[welshpug 1,657]

its not a significant difference, something like 18 kilos, if you want less weight go 8v or ew, they're a good bit less.

 

if anything the alloy mi16 is more durable save for corrosion issues with the liner seats, the iron block can wear quite a lot heavier than the liners of the alloy xu.

Edited October 7, 2016 by welshpug

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

Has anyone had any issues with heat dissipation with the iron block vs the ally? I suppose it comes down to application but has it ever been a deciding factor? I suppose the majority of heat is in the head / combustion area

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

You are overthinking it massively. The iron block XU was used in millions of PSA cars with no inherent issue with cooling.

[Shane17 7 1 Cars]

Story of my life with my brain just wasn't sure if it did have any effect in high load heavy usage. Fair comment though

[layton1985 5]

Thanks guys, really appreciate all the advice, Tom I was reading one of your thread, you did a full engine rebuild etc, very good read

 

I want the car to be comfortable and reliable as in slightly uprated over the standard but not so hard it backs your back over bumps I. E bilstein b4s, as for the engine I want a fully forged bottom end with power round 220bhp to 250bhp on omex 600 ecu, I want to enjoy the car on the weekends and the odd time I take it out, also the odd trip to a track and maybe to the nurburgring.

 

So if I can have a reliable ally engine over a steel one that would be the best route for me I think I like the snappy feel of the 205, I did notice the front end heavy and rear end twitchy feel when I had the 406 2.0 turbo engine, I loved the speed and power but the character suffered a little, I didn't uprate the suspension at the time and am aware I could have vastly improved this but just think it would be even better with less weight over the nose.

[petert 586]

84x88 = 1950cc

 

A 1905cc engine making 240-250hp will have to spin to 8000+. That's hardly what you'd call reliable.

 

All of the decent racing/track 205's in Australia run XU iron blocks. In terms of kW/Kg they're superior.

 

Alloy engines add extra complexity (read expense) to the build, with the need to get liner sealing and protrusion correct.

 

If you have both at your disposal, the most cost effective hp monster you can build is an 87x88 iron block. Save weight by only using the bottom part of the alternator/PAS mount. See post #18 here:

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=165591&page=1

[welshpug 1,657]

if you want grunt go 92mm

 

has to have proper rods though

[layton1985 5]

My last 309 was set at 8250, it saw that a lot as well, I think if it is built right like anything you could double that, 8000rpm isn't too major I wouldn't have thought? Are forged engine parts not made for this extra power and rpm? Sort of makes them useless otherwise?

 

So far I am going to stick to the original block I am going to have a look for forged pistons, I will use 87 x 88 crank,there is a thread with lots of cranks to use but I can't find it now, think xud 11 (2.2 406 diesel turbo?) Crank is used plus forges rods and pins, I'm aware this will be expensive, so can't just splash out on it all.

 

To search for the correct pistons do I search by engine or are they sort of universal? Do they just go off the dimensions I mean?

92 would that leave the liners like tin foil ? Ha

92mm would that leave the liners like tin foil? Ha

[layton1985 5]

Struggling to find the topic with people laying down the different bore x stroke plus the crank and engine it come from

[welshpug 1,657]

88mm is any 1.9 xu or xud, the turbo crank is stronger.

 

92mm is the xud11.

 

88mm bore is pushing it, safer to stay at 87mm.

[layton1985 5]

Thanks welshpug I will have a look into sourcing a xud turbo crank, and stick to a bore of 87, do you know what capacity that would give?

 

Is it a straight fit or will I have to have bearings made to order to fit the block and crank as they are from different engines? There is a place in Yorkshire that I will take it to, to have the crank checked and balanced etc so maybe they will advise me on the bearing size.

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for forged pistons or are they all as good as each other?

[petert 586]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=30953&page=1