205 D Turbo - Gti Setup Too Soft?

[mmcgtk 2]

I have a 1.9td 205 (originally a 1.8 d turbo).

 

Rear:

Rebuilt 1.8 Dturbo Beam

Solid rear axle mounts

GTI Arb.

Cheap Budget coilover dampers

 

Front:

Budget Coilovers

Group N front top shock mounts.

GTI ARB

New Wishbones,drop links,tre etc.

New Hubs

New Wheelbearings

New Top Mounts & Bearings

Lower front subframe brace

Top Strut brace (yet to be fitted).

 

4 New Toyo Proxies on 15" 1.9 GTI SMR's

 

The car currently sits at standard height.

 

The ride is almost too firm on the front and I was thinking of going back to a spring/shock combo that will give near o.e.m comfort along being upto some fast road use.

 

I was thinking of going with a full bilstein b4 setup with 30mm eibach springs.

 

Unsure if I will use solid group n top mount rubbers or standard ones.

 

I haven't seen any dturbo specific bilstein b4s or eibach springs

 

The only concern I have is the weight diff between my dturbo and a gti.

 

Would the 1.9 gti setup be too soft for the heavier 1.9td ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Anthony 1,003]

Whilst the extra weight over the nose is noticeable, the GTi setup works reasonably well, but keep in mind that the extra weight means that it'll sit lower for a given spring than a standard GTi does.

 

Indeed, standard GTi springs sit at quite a nice height of my old STDT that I upgraded to full GTi suspension was anything to go by. Eibach 7001's meant for a GTi will probably be a bit low - they certainly are with a GTi6 engine.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

I'd hazard a guess those "budget coil overs" are the main issue. OE spec standard would be better than eBay coil overs.

[mmcgtk 2]

I'd hazard a guess those "budget coil overs" are the main issue. OE spec standard would be better than eBay coil overs.

100% its the problem

 

Its quite possible there out of a 306, they came with the car.

 

I do have have some 306 dturbo shocks with (apec or apex yellow springs?) I think there 60mm springs.

 

I've been tempted to put them in for the short term.

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

Hi Guys,

 

First of all, i ve been going through the heap of posts written about eibach springs, what to use and what not to use. None of them were very conclusive, merely good pointers.

As i am currently driving a 205 Dturbo, which i love, i am very pleased with the comfort of the standard setup, only how high the car sits doesnt appeal to me..

 

Normally, i would have taken the eibach E7004-120 kit, but it is no longer available from Eibach.

 

So on to alternatives, and already much debatted topic here. I have taken the effort to collect all tech specs of the Eibach kit (of the TUV cert) and put those measurements though a springstrength (In N/MM) calculator, based on number of coils, unloaded length etc. I have taken the assumption that the materials used are the same for all listed kits...and since most pro kits are liniar, the strenght should provide a nice indicator.

 

Right so basics first:

205 D turbo 5 doors, max front axle load 750 kg, currently running std Dturbo struts and 205 Dturbo springs on GTi subframe. Rear axle standard Diesel with ARB.

 

 

 

Please bear in mind that a DTurbo lump weighs more than a GTI and a MI16 lump. E7001-120 kit is GTI only, max axle load 640 kg, E7003-120 is 1.1 and 1.4 petrol versions.

 

E7004-120 / -30 mm / 16.138 N/mm

 

Possible alternatives: (all liniar springs)

E7016-120 / P106 S2 1.6 +D / -20 mm / 18.611 N/mm / Max 785 kg
E7024-120 / P206 1.6 16v / -30 mm / 18.66 N/mm / max 890 kg (same stamping as the 7016, unloaded spring lower by 10 mm than E7016)
E7025-120 / P206 1.4 HDI / -25 mm / 20.882 N/mm / max 890 kg
E10-70-001(2)-03-20 / P206 1.9 d en 1.6 HDI / -30mm / 16.654 N/mm / max 890 kg
E7010-120 / P306 1.6 / -30 mm / 16.654 N/mm / max 950 kg (same stamping and sizes as the E10-70-001-001-03-20 / E10 70-002-03-20)
E7011-120 / P306 D / -30 mm / 19.567 N/mm / max 950 kg

 

Remarkably, these figurs already explain some of the issues described in old posts.

Kit E7024 lowers to the E7001 level, E7025 lifts it a bit over std

E7016 is slightly higher than E7001 kit.

 

Furthermore, there are the sportsline kits to be had... these kits are progressive as the E 7001-120 is. Springrate might be off as i could account for progressive design.

E7001-120 P205 GTI / -25 (10-15 Eff) / 12.070 N/mm / max 640 kg
E20-70-001-01-20 P106 S2 1.6+d / -45 mm / 12.133 / max 785 kg
E20-70-002-01-20 P206 HDI / -45 / 12.133 / max 890 kg

 

Right so now down to the haiury stuff, which one do i put on?

Any of you out there already fiddled around with these eibach on a Dturbo?

Lety me know what you guys think.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Loekie

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

Summer set up

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9rGmHwALl2XejY2Q1hsOVdLMUU

 

Previous with gti suspension

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9rGmHwALl2XU3hTcW0xX2JsRTA

Edited February 19, 2017 by Loekie

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

I'm running Eibach 7024-120 springs for the 1.6 206 on mine. I've got a gti-6 which will be a similar weight to your D-turbo I would imagine. They give around a 25mm drop over standard.

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

Found these engine weights in a post somewhere.

 

XUD7T 150 kg

XUD9TE 140 kg

GTi6 143 kg

S16 160 kg

hdi 2.0 150 kg

 

So looks like the E7024 or the E10-70-002-03-20 kits should be spot on....wondering about the sportsline kits thou...

[welshpug 1,658]

I'd take those numbers with a pinch of salt, as it looks like what has been taken as "fully dressed" has varied wildly.

 

I weighed a bare XU9 last week with a gti6 flywheel, at 88 kg, TU5J4 with flywheel at 100 kg.

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

I have also asked the guys over at Eibach, but as can be expected they are being very "german" about it....just wait and see i guess

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

Right getting to the bottom of this, ihope......

 

Just got off the phone with my supplier, actually an engineer with access to technical drawings for the Eibach springs.

 

Based on the specs of the former E7004-120 kit, he recommends the E7010-120 kit.

This is the 306 1.9D pro kit aka (same stamping) the 206 1.9 D/ 1.6/2.0 HDI prokit.

 

This kit(E7010-120) should give me a rise of about 10-20 mm, compared to a Dturbo with Prokit E7001-120 kit fitted.

So in theorie, i should end up at the same level as the Prokit E7004-120 would have.

 

Secondly, and paralel to above findings, a sportsline (progressive spring) kit for the 206 HDI (E20-70-002-01-20) should drop a std 205 Dturbo to about the same level as a 205 gti with the E7001-120 kit mounted.

 

Ordered the E7010 kit, will keep you guys updated on actual drop, once mounted.

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

Hi guys

Finally got the Eibachs mounted together with fresh topmounts bearings and arb rods.
Forgot to measure before, so only have mounted measurement of 350 mm, from wheel centre to lowest point on the wheel arch.

Optically it dropped the car slightly, but not by that much.

The ride has firmed up considerably, without to much of a comfort sacrifice. Would say it rides a bit more modern.

Currently running standard diesel rear beam, which is actually a bit to soft spring wise and definately arb wise. Will have to sort that out.

 

Oh and added a GTI rear valance, front is still on the to do list...

And yes I have pics....

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9rGmHwALl2XNkdLaTJQRzVTSms/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9rGmHwALl2XOHBtRmZFVV9RMEE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9rGmHwALl2XQXp3aGZCMnpsbG8/view?usp=sharing

Edited April 19, 2017 by Loekie

[Loekie 1 1 Cars]

On to the rear beam issue. Took some measurements the other day as the car was on a bridge for an oil change.

 

The rear sits about 25 mm higher than the front, so i am guessing a standard 1.6 GTi rear beam should be the logical way to go to level the car.

 

Just double checking, but the difference of a GTi to a diesel rear beams should be around 25-30 mm right?

 

Any comments?