Wolf In Sheep's Clothing - 205 V6

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Having got my steel grey to a position where I can use it everyday and just fettle a few things I needed another project to crack on with. I've had this Miami denim blue 1.6 for a good few years now. It was a nail when i bought it, the plan was to keep it a year or so whilst I finished Uni and then flog it or break it. I've ended up using it as a daily for the last 6-7 years, it just kept on going. Apart from the head gasket letting go its also been ultra reliable. It also ended up being used as a work van for a while whilst I got on my feet with my own business.

 

Most people would have scrapped it a long time ago as the body work is completely shot but it's got sentimental value now and they're getting a bit thin on the ground these days. My initial plan was to throw a K20 in it on bodies and management but I got talking to Jamespug off here about his v6 conversion he was letting go and we came to a deal.

 

 

 

The engine was in Damien's old CJ and was up and running and came with proper engine mounts made by thirdtimelucky, modified driveshafts, clutch setup, loom ecu, subframe etc etc. I drove down and picked it up and it's now tucked away in my shed awaiting new clutch, cambelt kit and a few other bits and bobs.

 

I had a couple of hours spare yesterday so I stripped the entire front end in preparation for prepping the engine bay. I was pleasantly surprised to find no holes behind the washer bottle or on the front panel, just surface rust that will be buzzed down treated and painted. The exterior will be left looking 'original' with its faded lacquer and dents here and there but the plan is to make a nice job of the engine and bay.

 

 

 

Currently I'm on the hunt for parts. I'm going to ditch the cable clutch setup that came with the conversion and use the 206 setup with a cylinder coming off the pedal box and the later d9 slave. I'd like to mount the ecu inside the car so I will probably make another loom for it. I have patterns for the subframe and downpipe which I'm going to use and make new ones as I'm not all that happy with them. I need to mount the 406 gearstick and run the cable operated shift which seems to fit very easily. Radiator wise I'm going to try and use the 205 rad and fabricate a new mount for it and run slim line fans. I do have a vr6 rad but its not all that bigger capacity wise and the 205 has a return to the header tank whereas the golf ones don't.

 

I've been on the hunt for an LSD for the ML5t it seems Kaaz do one at £850 and Pug1off do one for £1200! I have emailed quaife as I understand they did make one for the boxer van, but it will probably require a minimum order. After having an ATB in my steel grey I'm not going back to an open diff unless I can really help it.

 

That's about it for now. Any suggestions from people who have done the v6 conversion would be great as this is new territory for me but it all seems reasonably straight forward so far. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions as I get more into it.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Good to see another. Personally the noise is better than bodies for me. Just wait until George gets his M3 bodies on his!

 

I'd guess you've take a look at my pedal box and the red 205 V6 one? Cable setups are properly pants so it's best to do it this way.

 

If you're going to use a 205 radiator at least use a larger capacity one, the 406 item is barely up to the job and Miles could get his estate to over heat on a blat!

 

Proper tubular manifolds, some cams and management will see over 250bhp! Famously detuned from the factory.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

M3 bodies, now that sounds interesting! I have been looking at what uprated parts are available and not found a huge amount. I've seen the odd turbo and supercharged lump but don't really want to go down that route. I think for now i'll get it running on standard management then maybe move to Omex 710. I'm sensing a bit of deja vu though as that was the plan with the gti-6....

 

Yeah I did a bit of digging around and the clutch setup on the red v6 seems like the best and tidiest option. With regards radiators I think that car also ran a 205 rad? I might try and squeeze something bigger in there, but there isn't a lot of room.

[welshpug 1,657]

i dont think you'll fit any thicker rad than a standard 205 gti unit in there, the cast exhaust manifold takes up a fair bit of space, as does the alternator!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

It does fit a bit nicer in a 309 to be honest.

[welshpug 1,657]

yes indeed, and a 405, didn't touch the subframe in the 405!

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Has anyone tried a 309 rad in a 205? They seem to be the same length and depth just taller. Wondering if that would work if it could be mounted low enough.

[Goliath 94]

My v6, the red v6 and Hilgerts V6 all use a golf mk3 vr6 radiator, it has the inlet/outlet on the same side and is the same or slightly larger capacity than a 205 one. It is fine for road use but it will soon overheat on track.

 

There is seemingly a simple plug and play option for a cable clutch on a LHD car, which could probably be adapted easily for RHD if you wanted the simplicity of staying cable. It uses a cable setup from a expert xud (lhd only i think) which plugs in where the d8 slave cylinder sits in the gearbox.

I know Hilgert has just ordered the parts to try, I'll see if I can find part numbers and pictures for you.

[welshpug 1,657]

that sounds interesting George, there are a few companies that can make you a cable to suit if you can supply ends

[Biggles 65]

JJ Cables did my clutch cable. Would recommend if you need something bespoke.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

My v6, the red v6 and Hilgerts V6 all use a golf mk3 vr6 radiator, it has the inlet/outlet on the same side and is the same or slightly larger capacity than a 205 one. It is fine for road use but it will soon overheat on track.

 

There is seemingly a simple plug and play option for a cable clutch on a LHD car, which could probably be adapted easily for RHD if you wanted the simplicity of staying cable. It uses a cable setup from a expert xud (lhd only i think) which plugs in where the d8 slave cylinder sits in the gearbox.

I know Hilgert has just ordered the parts to try, I'll see if I can find part numbers and pictures for you.

 

I will probably try both the vr6 and the 205 rad and see what works best. The plug and play cable option sounds good. Any info, pics or part numbers would be great.

[Goliath 94]

With the vr6 rad, I have a 'T' piece in the top rubber hose which runs back to the expansion tank, it is necessary in my experience otherwise you get all sorts of air locks and overheating.

 

This is the info from Hilgie about the cable clutch setup:

Part numbers for cable conversion -

2115 32 Lever

2175 46 bearings

2172 14 pin (2x needed, might be in the same set as 2115 32)

2150 P6 cable (too short for RHD, only 107cm)

2152 36 sleeve over cable

 

Photobucket won't work for me at the moment otherwise I would upload the servicebox pictures.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

That was my main concern using the vr6 rad as it had no return but it is a lot more convenient with the outlets on the right side. Thanks for the clutch info, I will look into that.

 

I have been in contact with quaife regarding an ATB. They can do a batch of 10 for £715 +vat and delivery. Anyone interested?

[Goliath 94]

3j driveline are in the final stages of making a proper plate diff for the ML5T. They quoted me a rough estimate of £750 a few months back, full pricing info once they are finished. I'm holding out for one of them rather that going for a quaife one.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

I could well be interested in a 3j at that price, keep me posted!

 

I priced up the cable clutch setup and it was well over £100 so I'm going to go down the 206 hydraulic setup. I picked up a slave and pipe work at the weekend off a scrapper for next to nothing. I'm going to see if I can use the 206 reservoir also to save having a separate bottle...

 

I managed to find a spare hour and treat some of the surface rust on the front end, after further prodding with a screwdriver there are two small holes which need welding but nothing major fortunately. I also bought a clutch kit, cambelt kit and a set of plugs. Not bloody cheap!! Fortunately GSF were doing 43% off this weekend but even so v6's are expensive! Hopefully it will be worth it.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

A small amount of progress, took the old cambelt off and changed tensioners as per my other thread. I discovered an oil leak from either crank seal or the end crank case/ oil pump housing cover. I took the end plate off cleaned all surfaces and put a light smear of rtv all the way around and re-fitted. The leak definitely appears to be coming from the crank seal however as for some reason its worn away the entire front face of the seal. I'm guessing the seal must have worked its way forward and rubbed on the back of the bottom pulley/ sprocket.

 

I'm going to order a new one from Pug along with an inlet gasket as that will be coming off also.

 

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

A bit more progress over the weekend, I replaced the crank seal and got the cambelt sorted. I also removed the old clutch which appeared to be the original and was down to the rivets. Inlet manifold was removed, it was previously painted but it had corroded underneath so it was stripped ready to re-paint. Next is to change the plugs and remove all the wiring and ancillaires so I can degrease the whole thing. I may re-seal the rocker covers as they seem to have been leaking.

 

Next I'll move back to the engine bay and continue prepping for paint.

 

 

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Bit late now but I really would re-seal the cam carriers, they always leak as does the sump for a past time, cooling wise as said it doesn't take long on track to get warm, road is fine even at 150 odd for mile after mile, just the MPG slows you down. Not sure what the Clio boy's do about it.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Has to re seal my sump. Was lucky with the cam carriers/covers though.

 

I did the goodwood cambelt in situe. Was a twat of a job!

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Bugger! I didn't realise that was a common leak, that's a big job! I've just put the thing back together! I will have to see whether I can summon the enthusiasm to strip it back down.

 

 

Has to re seal my sump. Was lucky with the cam carriers/covers though.

I did the goodwood cambelt in situe. Was a twat of a job!

 

I don't envy you doing it in situ, was bit of a PITA with it out!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I've only had 3 V6's but each one of them started leaking around the 100k mark, sump abit sooner but they use the same silly seal as the GTi 6 top cam cover's