[Engine Work] 205 1.9 Needing 24 Valves

[Kambo 9]

Hey up

 

Bit about me, used to have a 205 about 15 years ago, white 1.9, all the usual stuff that makes it good...unfortuntaly other people thought the same so after three attempts at others trying to own it instead of me I started losing the love for it and sold it on pretty much mangled up I don't remember the reg no' but I dare say its up there in pug heaven > it does exist

 

I've been hankering after one since but in all honesty its always been a case of "if you get a chance" rather than anything else

 

Being around people I know (Josh on here - lemmingzappa, The Matt) fast forward a couple of years and a move to a new (better) area and a better garage and so it goes, the love is slowly coming back! Time to rekindle the flame and feel the love, its all in the feel people, you have to feel, without no feel there is no thought...

 

So got a 205 last week as a light project/something to learn on kinda purchase. Bought from eBay from a nice guy (maybe a member on here?) who also managed to sort out trailering it to me (much appreciated mate) so it has all the necessary requirements needing a trailer, no MOT, non runner and general non legal stuff

 

Purchased as a non runner, was told it starts with jump cables but dies soon after, battery not holding charge, few rust spots, couple of tyres need replacing for MOT, was originally a 1.6 and been converted to a 1.9. Running on 888's. Owner knew last owner who he said was looking to track/hillclimb it possibly but nothing ever come of it so he sold it on. I purchased the car without even seeing it (HPI was done before) and after looking over the car I have to say the last owner was honest and spot on with everything, fair play

 

First job was simple, where there's dirt there's dust, where's there's dust there's rust! But this was just dust

 

 

 

 

This has two rubber panels on the rear side section I don't know if its a trackday/hillclimb thing or maybe just to hide rust but either way with the black wheels it actually adds a nice touch. Looks like just a rubber cut out riveted on

 

If anyone knows any reason why these are here I'd love to know as they do add to the appeal whatever they are doing here on earth

 

 

 

So obviously the first proper job was easy - I used the two bucket method

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone knows any history with this car then shout out. I like others here have owned loads of modern s**tboxes but they have no character, they are a workhorse and are bought as one, there is reason why cars like this well they just work because of what they are? I like to build up a picture with what I have, all helps in passing it on and during the build

 

My 205 knowledge is limited. All I know is I had one before and now I have one again, so forum search here we go

 

First main job today was to have a good look round, key in and nothing, last owner said it wasn't holding a charge even after a charge so he changed battery and still nothing

 

Battery had 0.07 volts, now I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure another 12 volts might've helped a tad here so put a new battery in and yet it dropped, next issue was trying to find the drain then after switching on ignition it cured whatever the problems was!!!! French! I then checked the terminals as something was obviously not right but last owner had told me he had no idea why it was as it was so I'll let you figure it out!

 

 

I think an 'issue' with the "crimper" might explain

 

Anyways, with my new battery I get ignition lights! And it turns fires and starts!

 

 

Then dies - hello frenchy

 

Start again but same, back to here for a search and find although this is a 1.9 lump it has a 1.6 AFM as numbers end 056

 

 

So I take it out and have a gander

 

AFM looks ok but I think maybe its been sucking in too much air post AFM?

 

 

 

Looking at the positioning it was getting pressed down on something or being pierced causing the start of the crack underneath but there was no intrusion underneath, there was also a crack line pointing towards the new pipe insert, either way this bad boy was getting a bit too much love (air) having too much love can be too much people - just ask your AFM's

 

Also the cone filter was one big mutha, needed yes but not that size (IMHO) pic of bay when I bought it

 

 

Not easy to get out but also missing a jubilee clip although it looked like it was somehow holding on

 

Once out it was proving a pig (not pug) to get back in so I left it hanging out like some poor mans american muscle car

 

Next job was trying to work out why the hell when I took the key out and locked the car up for the night there was a battery light symbol still on the dash? C'mon frenchys, you are testing me now!

 

Took a guess it must be a short so back here and quick search come up with the "brown multiplug" oh how devious he sounds!

 

I don't even want to guess what was going on here, I blame the crimper on the above fore mentioned batt terminals as they are cannon fodder right now! either way I could be wrong but it looks like they played a hand in this, all fun

 

 

I'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here with my rubber fork kinda thing here that this is some kind of rubber/waterproof sealant to help? Luckily I know someone who has a spare I think 6 pin waterproof plug...

 

So end of the night (and peeing off the neighbours I'm guessing) I decided to start her up and let her idle in the garage then see whats what, all good I think on the dials side of things after about 10 minutes or so?

 

 

Is that normal readings? Got no owners manual here so will search online tomorrow on whats what as yes its all nice the dash lighting up but that pic was taken after about 10 minutes and the I think engine temp and low oil temp only woke up a couple of minutes beforehand! God you have to love the french!

 

You are the best at electrics - FACT as that short I had with the battery symbol had no longer come on since I stalled it!

 

Anyhoos, I love my purchase but stuck on what to do? Its a 1.9 engine on a 1.6 manufacture, still has drums on the rear, its almost ready for track use

 

So we've got a 1.9 with bigger valves on the head and it runs on a 1.6 box with a Mi16 final drive, not sure what this means in real terms for road or track but on our private road in the limited use I've had with it so far this thing just wants to go but is geared short

 

Like I said, if anyones the history on car or owner then shout out, I just love to build a picture

 

In the meantime, Road, track or restore?

Edited November 22, 2017 by Kambo

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

Brilliant post - great that you have the love again. I kinda like those riveted rust hiders!

 

I'd get a MoT and drive it for a while before deciding which way to go, though looking at the MoT history you've got quite a bit to do! As it's already modded I'd be tempted to road/track..

 

Watching.

[welshpug 1,657]

all of the above.

 

a road car needs as much prep as a "track" car, just dont bin the interior.

[Robbiedundy 58 4 Cars]

Nice car, I wasn't sure which way to go with my 205 at first either. I wanted to restore it so it would hold it's value better, then I wanted to strip it out, put a cage etc in for trackdays but decided it wouldn't be very practical for anything else. I'm trying to make it a fast road car now. Pretty much keeping the whole interior apart from rear seats. I think those rubber cut outs are used in rallying to protect your sill/lower rear quarter from gravel rash.

 

All the best ????

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

It'll run better with a 1.9 afm, I ran a 1.6 for ages (was a spare) by mistake DOH!! Car always felt under hard acceleration that it was fluffing-I mean it was trying to fly but something was holding it back.

All the rally boys have that rubber on rear quarter but for 5 minutes with drill it might be worth taking it off for a look see-could be hiding something or nothing

Personally I've been putting my car back to standard (it was me that modded it 20 years ago) as that's the car that I bought in the first place

If you look on howmanyleft. com you can see how limited the survival rates been-if it was ropey I'd race it, if it's generally sound I'd keep it "as is" as a road car-yes it can be a pain with randoms wanting to talk about the car they had 20 years ago, when all you're trying to do is put petrol in it

With eBay now there isn't really anything you can't get (quality issues aside) not like when I bought my one-getting parts mail order and using cheques (remember them lol)

[Kambo 9]

when I bought my one-getting parts mail order and using cheques (remember them lol)

 

Stayed at a B&B back in May in Fowey Cornwall, she wanted a cheque sent beforehand to secure it, I thought she was pulling my chain as its been so long since I last saw a cheque I actually googled if they are still in use!

Personally I've been putting my car back to standard (it was me that modded it 20 years ago) as that's the car that I bought in the first place

 

Sorry mate its probably me reading that all wrong, did the above mean you are slowly putting your 205 back to standard after 20 years of ownership as thats your first 205 or that you owned my car 20 years ago as thats the first 205 you bought?

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Bought it in 1996 when I was going out with girlfriend (first wife) put car in her name, no kids, earning a fortune and spending every damn penny of it, was still at my trade (toolmaker) so seemed a shame not to put bits onto car, like cosworth discs/Volvo 4pots (not a straight fit) even a front splitter (height of coolness then)

Kept car all these years, but traded wife in for a better model!!!

[Kambo 9]

Yeah for extra coolness you forgot fake brake discs as well Front splitters you must mean the ones with the little adjustable bars on them, I'm sure I bought one with four bars on them - for my corsa, side and rear was all standard

 

Dam cheque should've bounced with Demon Tweeks as at a 'meet' someone called me out on my drum braked fake ass rear "discs"

 

Good to see you stick with at least one old dear eh

 

On the car front, no progress at the moment but also no rush, little one is keeping me busy anyway but as he's 13 weeks old I can't really blame him - yet

 

Will pick up another 888 and 1.9 AFM as and when then off to MOT. Gearbox is 1.6 with a Mi16 final, does seem short even with local private road driving, will look into changing the final or maybe just keep a standard 1.9 in, will see 80% road 20% track use

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Well my front splitter was made from tufnol (bit like cloth with resin-think trabant) and for extra coolness the adjusters had bright red air hose (from the factory I worked) over the rods-to match the gti stripes!!!

 

It was the dogs watsits!! Well it was the 90s

 

All was well until mot man said-no get onto ramp,no mot!!

 

Your wee mans 13 weeks old, my oldest wasn't even born when I got my 205-she's off to uni this year! Still haven't finished the car haha

[Kambo 9]

Your wee mans 13 weeks old, my oldest wasn't even born when I got my 205-she's off to uni this year! Still haven't finished the car haha

 

Yeah I can't lie mate, you win well and truly, and I mean really well and really truly!

[Kambo 9]

Crikey, didn't realise its been a year since my last update

It only feels like a few months of ownership but admittingly its just been sitting in the garage looking pretty, been looking over it from time to time to gather up info on whats needed etc so figured as the sun decided to pop its head out lately it'll be nice to get some summer use out of it - ever the hopeful

Not got a lot of time to play on it but anyways, did a search on here so first thing was getting some uprated slick gear selector rods from Miles

Mine had popped off gearbox end on an earlier test drive

Next up was brakes, they were errrrm shall we say hard to find?

Res was bone dry

 

Had a good look round but no leaks/spills near above or below the res so decided front calipers were next, they are standard 1.6 bendix jobbies, drivers side was fine but over to the other side and it wasn't that hard to spot the exit door for the watery stuff

 

 

My spidey senses were telling me the tear in the rubber wasn't normal and a contributing factor in the problem I was having

 

On taking off the passenger side caliper I had this attached on but the drivers side had nothing?

 

 

Obviously its meant to be on the other side but what is it?

 

Rather than work on these calipers I put them to one side and had some GTi6 ones come through

 

Bit overkill but don't mind upgrading them, bit of a clean and they should come up trumps, got some bigger discs as well

 

Will pick up a 23mm master at some point

 

Did get some uprated brake hoses from Miles for extra/correct reach

 

 

Master cylinder brake unions were mashed up so had to cut them off, will need to get some new lines made up from the new master to each caliper and to the rear brake valve under the battery

 

 

Can someone confirm the brake union sizes for the brake master outlets and the inlet on the rear brake valve (or whatever its called) that runs off to the back of the car

 

Also if these sizes are the same for the 406 23mm master? Thanks

 

Got a 1.9 engine but this had a 056 AFM, picked up a 109

 

 

Reluctantly I decided to remove the top-of-the-range alarm system...

 

 

I swear you could buy these Sparkrite in argos?

 

Thatcham? No, install fear in would be thieves? No

 

Once it went I did wonder what normally goes in its place? Is there anything factory that goes here?

 

 

So thats all for now, need to look at the power steering again as it seems the piping is interfering with the air filter

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Kambo

[Anthony 1,003]

Rather than work on these calipers I put them to one side and had some GTi6 ones come through

Does your car still have 1.6 hubs if it was originally a 1.6? These are a different offset to base model and 1.9 hubs, and GTi-6 disks won't fit.

 

Can someone confirm the brake union sizes for the brake master outlets and the inlet on the rear brake valve (or whatever its called) that runs off to the back of the car

 

Also if these sizes are the same for the 406 23mm master? Thanks

They're all M10x1 thread, same for both the original and 406 23mm MC.

 

Got a 1.9 engine but this had a 056 AFM, picked up a 109

Might want to double check whether you have a 1.9 ECU (ends 359) and 1.9 injectors (yellow in colour) or whether the 1.6 items are still fitted (340 and blue). You don't want to mix 1.6 and 1.9 bits, as the fuelling will end up way out.

 

Once it went I did wonder what normally goes in its place? Is there anything factory that goes here?

Originally the jack and wheel brace fit there. Jack screws into that threaded boss, and the wheel brace clips in to that plastic retainer on the side.

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

That alarm position is exactly where my "moss" alarm was fitted

Never used it, it didn't work!

 

Until that night in the petrol station when it self armed!!!

 

Fobs and key were 5 mile away

 

Oh how I laughed later when I removed it, smashed it with lump hammer, then chucked it in wheelie bin-the f***ing thing had wailed and hazard lit me up all the way home

 

#mortified

[Kambo 9]

Thanks for the heads up Anthony, appreciated

 

Ahh bugger, in my mind I've been thinking 1.9 as I've been buying stuff as its got a 1.9 lump in (yellow injectors) but yeah its originally a 1.6, not sure on the ECU so will check

 

Will look for some 1.9 hubs, its had a top end rebuild (before me) with a big valve head so ok to use my driveshafts or will I need to grab some 1.9's?

 

Hopefully get some brake lines made up soon as well

 

Everyday is a learning day

[Anthony 1,003]

1.6 driveshafts in good order will be fine for a fair power increase - plenty of people running 16v and turbo conversions on them.

 

The splines are different size between 1.6 and 1.9 hubs, so 1.9 hubs need 1.9 shafts.

 

If you want to run larger brakes from 306's etc on a 1.6, easiest to use base model hubs - these use the same splines as 1.6 shafts but are the correct offset for the common brake conversions. 1.6 shafts and base model hubs is basically the same setup as D/TD models use as standard.

[Kambo 9]

That alarm position is exactly where my "moss" alarm was fitted

Never used it, it didn't work!

 

Had a moss

 

Felt proud knowing the sticker in the side window would put potential thieves off...

 

Car never got stolen, probably too embarrassed to drive something away with that sticker on, hardly a status badge in the criminal world

[Kambo 9]

So the 1.9 splines are different hub end only and not the box end?

[Anthony 1,003]

So the 1.9 splines are different hub end only and not the box end?

Correct - the 'box end is the same on all the BE gearbox models, so 1.6, 1.9, diesel and TD. It's the hub end that differs, with 1.6 and D/TD models using the smaller splines and 1.9 GTi models using the larger splines.

[Kambo 9]

Coolio

[Kambo 9]

Thanks to photobucket whoring themselves out theres no earlier pics, I was having other issues with them anyway so I deleted mine around the time of all the problems

 

The direction of the 205 has changed somewhat, was going to just fix up the 1.9 then swap this then that, but I've settled on an engine swap and picked one up so as soon as I've sorted out the the new hosting site I'll update on here again...

[Kambo 9]

This is meant to be a slow build honest but I've already got 95% of the bits needed already 

 

Found someone who was looking to get rid of there conversion, he hadn't had a chance to install it himself but had heard the engine running from the guy he bought it from who was also another forum member

 

So I got

 

ML5T gearbox, cable linkage shifter which can go in place of mine and custom driveshafts

 

 

 

 

 

Modified standard front subframe

 

 

I might keep this one as a template and cut mine

 

It has the correct 406 mount holder on there to make things easier

 

 

Inlet with new gasket ready, I will clean the inlet and go all spicky and spammy 

 

 

One is a VR6 rad the other is just a standard vee dub one

 

 

Unlocked ECU

 

 

Random goody bits 

 

 

Custom slave clutch setup

 

 

And 'El Beasto

 

 

 

Custom top mount which allows standard one to fit

 

 

 

Started having a look around the exhaust manifolds

 

 

 

Its got a loom but I will get another made up by Ade

 

 

I reckon I can have this turn key within 2 weeks and first drive within 4, but I'm not gonna rush it. Lots of bodywork bits to tackle first!

 

All fun 

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Bwwwwwwwap!!!

loving it

[Kambo 9]

3 hours ago, toolie72 said:

Bwwwwwwwap!!!

loving it

 

Is that what sound it makes?  I thought it was always a mild sunday afternoon type burble 

 

Might stay away from some villages that day then 

[Kambo 9]

Not been doing much on the car today, just having a good look around whats what in the bay, what needs cleaning up etc

 

Main focus was getting the engine on a stand which is all sorted now 

 

 

 

I've also managed to source some 1.9 hubs, got GTI6 calipers here ready and waiting but the hubs were the main thing as they run the same size shafts as 1.9

 

Also I've got PAS, looking at the modified subframe I got compared with my original one I can't see how the PAS rack can fit? I need to drop my subframe so might offer up the new one and put the PAS rack loosley in place then drop the lump in to see if it'll go 

 

I need PAS - I'm getting older 

[Kambo 9]

Done a little more earlier today, I need to get my subframe off, I did get a modified subframe with the conversion purchase but I'm not that happy with some/most of it so I will be cutting my one up and use the other as a template 

 

 

Sods law my jack plays up whilst trying to lift the body! I've had this racing low entry jack for a few years now (machine mart purchase I think) never let me down but when I bought it I wasn't get the best reviews from folks who said bits and bobs were either missing or loose!

 

 

Looks like whatever is meant to be there in the UJ has popped out so pikey'd it up with a couple of screws! 

 

 

Was having a 'mare trying to get the power steering union out of both the pump and steering rack so left them in for now

 

Subframe off and all

 

 

I was trying to salvage as much of the PAS I got but these unions were starting to take the biscuit 

 

 

I'm still in two minds with this PAS, I will try and make my one work otherwise I will go EPS

 

Rack is off the frame

 

 

Still having issues with the unions! so thought sod it, ripped into them, will worry about hoses another time!

 

 

 

 

Thought I'd offer up the old PAS pump to the engine and see whats what, little bit of shaving but mount holes line up

 

 

 

 

Obviously I don't know how this pump differs to the 3.0 one or how this engine fits in the bay or what clearance is left but it seems to stay within the lines

 

 

If there's no room I will EPS this, but its always nice to have a try and a little looksie 

 

I loosely bolted up my steering rack to the modified frame just to see how everything sits before I cut mine up. I won't be using the modified frame, really not happy with it, now don't get me wrong I'm no expert welder but if it don't look right to me it don't get used period 

 

 

The underside will not put me on my MOT testers xmas card list thats for sure, looks like strengthening plates to me but again it may be functional but if it don't look right it can take all that away, just to confirm this is NOT work done by the guy I bought the conversion from, he already told me about this 

 

 

 

 

So the modified subframe has my PAS rack on now so put it on my little height adjustable stool and the engine is still on the stand

 

 

Just wanted to quickly check PAS rack clearance so lifted the stool, it still has some height to go, you can see the mount holder on the middle right

 

 

Already the PAS part of the rack is a few mm from the exhaust and it still needs to be raised another 6" or so

 

 

The subframe is obviously not in its natural lateral position so when I next get a chance I will install the subframe and put the engine on the crane (minus gearbox for now) drop it down and see again before I decide if I can use the PAS or go EPS