Operation De-Rust Or Bust

[Grim.Badger 15]

Way back in 2009 my beloved 1.6 GTi got cruely smashed up by a Volvo driver who forgot to brake...

 

 

 

Looking back, I'm not sure if it could have been saved. The rear arches were split apart from each other, the boot floor was rucked up, and even the front was buckled - considering I was stationary in a 30mph zone is was quite impressive! My passenger still has neck problems even now

 

My insurance gave me £800, almost twice what I'd paid for the car not more than a year before, but 205 prices were on the rise. Even though I had a courtesy car from the insurance (an Astra ) I still let myself panic and bought without really thinking. And so I now had a white 1.9GTi (I don't like white) with sunroof, rust, knackered clutch, blowing exhaust, and no history before the guy I bought it from.

 

Despite this, it has given me 7 years of nearly faultless daily-driving, only stranding me because of corroded wires and me leaving my lights on

 

 

By 2013 my laziness had let the tin-worms take hold and the MOT refusal had a list of six peices of welding that needed doing - P/S inner wing, both front floors (thanks tyre fitters ) both sills, and the D/S rear wing. I looked at 205s online and gasped at the price rise, with even knackered old junkers fetching hundreds (and occasionally offered for thousands). £1500 later, perhaps over the odds, and the car was back on the road again.

 

 

 

 

The next year and a half were problem free again, until what looked like a little bit of surface rust on the D/S turret revealed itself to be something much worse and started to split open. The cause was knackered aftermarket underseal, applied over the top of rust and mud from what I can tell, creating and hiding rust.

 

 

The damage was very close to the curve and the overlap with the outer wing, but some imaginative welding by my local garage managed to save the inner wing, which everyone else wanted to junk (or at least part re-fabricate).

 

And so we come to 2016. A tendancy for the car to spit out its coolant started to get worse, and I decided to get to grips with it. I found the expansion tank had cracked, and so replaced it, only for the newly pressurised system to blow the HG (which was knackered, and probably the main cause of the coolant problem as well as an intermittent "hiccup" from the engine)

 

 

So with the car off the road for a while I decided to try to fix my knackered engine loom, and get the engine and box out to clean and de-rust the engine bay. Unfortunately whilst I was trying to get the loom out, I found some nasty looking rust hiding under the edge of the scuttle panel and windcreen seal.

 

So, along comes a stand-in!

 

 

It's a 1.1 106 with 56k on the clock, 2 previous owners, no service history except the dealer had done the clutch, a few dents and scratches. That little 1.1 TU is a brialliant little engine! The car in general is far better than a 2002 1.25 Fiesta Zetec I had a while ago.....

 

Back to the 205, my list of jobs so far:

 

Remove the rest of the engine and box, clean up the engine bay (its filthy) and see how bad the rust is

Remove the windscreen and see how bad the rust is

Remove the main engine loom and rebuild

Repair/replace broken dash pieces

Get engine rebuilt

 

Needs doing, but perhaps not as part of this project:

 

Remove fuel tank and clean up rust under it

Repair and de-rust boot floor

Repair both front seats

Get front panels rebuilt

Re-attach one of the D/S rear quarter badges

 

Wishlist:

 

Replace roof panel with non-sunroof one

Get driving lights!

 

No doubt I'll remember more as this progresses. My budget is currently £0 and 0p, so this could be interesting!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grim.Badger 15]

First update:

 

Only spent a couple of hours more on it, the engine and box are now nearly ready to drop, there's just the D/S suspension to remove (I'm taking the suspension off, rather than just disconnect the driveshafts, to make my job easier). Now the engine bay looks like this:

 

 

The orange in cylinder #2 is thankfully just condensed coolant, not rust!

 

Some de-rusting I did a couple of months ago, needs tidying and welding up at some point:

 

 

 

The P/S inner wing, with the 2013 repair showing in black:

 

 

The P/S front panel:

 

 

And a close-up - what is the outer wing hiding?

 

 

The outer wing itself - is this just surface rust?

 

 

 

The turret, hopefully it won't be as bad as the D/S turret, depends on what the underseal is hiding!

 

 

And finally, what's left of the P/S front bump stop after 24 years?

 

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

Great pics and a fair bit of work ahead - good luck, am watching with interest!

[Grim.Badger 15]

I didn't get much work done this weekend, with the oppressive heat and humidity

 

First I tidied the garage a bit, as it gets out of hand (it's only small, and has to hold a car, spare parts, gardening stuff, Christmas decorations, old vacuum cleaners etc).

 

Secondly, I opened up my spare 1.6 engine. I remember being told when I picked it up, about 10 years ago from another forum member, that it had been rebuilt and then run for around 50k miles before being taken out for a Mi16. It certainly looks true!

 

 

Much cleaner than my 1.9 engine. There is barely a mark in the liner from the pistons, whereas my 1.9 had noticeable lips, and very little hard sooting.

 

I also started to take apart the D/S suspension, but got mocked by the track rod end I need a ball joint separator, or possibly fire. Everything else is ready for the engine and box to be dropped though.

 

Today I did a few minutes work, taking off the P/S outer wing. I was right in thinking it was hiding a mess, apparently the front corner is held together by wishful thinking!

 

 

 

I've seen worse on this forum, but it’s still nasty (especially as I don't know how to weld!) The underseal has obviously been holding water against the metal for a while now, and I need to spend some time properly stripping back. The outer wing is scrap, the little rust bubbles were indeed coming up from behind, the seam sealant wasn't sealing anything (although that made the wing very easy to remove), and the lower mounting points all crumbled

[welshpug 1,657]

for the bj you just need a proper hammer and belt the corner of the steering arm of the hub.

[Grim.Badger 15]

for the bj you just need a proper hammer and belt the corner of the steering arm of the hub.

 

Will give it a go

 

The head of my 1.9 engine for comparrison with the 1.6 above:

 

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

How's you? Might be time to scour gumtree for a mig-they're cheap as chips now anyway

I personally use an automatic mask (or I put weld snotters all over the place lol)

Practise on scrap bits of steel first-then give it a go

The worst that can happen is you're no good and have to sell welder on, but practise first-it's a good skill to have in your toolbox and it means you just groan when you find a hole (not sh@t yourself lol)

 

I remember my first talbot sunbeam-I lifted carpet and saw a funny black mark about 8inches round-it was the drive,the carpet was the floor!! So I learnt to weld on it (already had college course but doing a cars not the same as welding in a nice workshop)

[Grim.Badger 15]

It's out!

 

 

In the end the bj needed fire and plenty of hammering to both the stud and the hub in the end, so may need replacing

 

Now the real investigations begin, like seeing what is under the silicoln in the chasis leg valleys (yes, you heard right, someone has filled the valleys with silicoln)

 

I also need to figure out where I can store the bonnet and windscreen so that I can remove them.

[Grim.Badger 15]

How's you? Might be time to scour gumtree for a mig-they're cheap as chips now anyway

I personally use an automatic mask (or I put weld snotters all over the place lol)

Practise on scrap bits of steel first-then give it a go

The worst that can happen is you're no good and have to sell welder on, but practise first-it's a good skill to have in your toolbox and it means you just groan when you find a hole (not sh@t yourself lol)

 

I remember my first talbot sunbeam-I lifted carpet and saw a funny black mark about 8inches round-it was the drive,the carpet was the floor!! So I learnt to weld on it (already had college course but doing a cars not the same as welding in a nice workshop)

 

I think I'm going to have to give it a go. The welding jobs I've found so far aren't complex, but there's lots of them so they will add up in costs. I'm also sick of garages doing shoddy jobs, or charging an arm and a leg. The windscreen frame will be the worst, I expect, if it turns out to need welds as I expect.

 

A question for anyone reading this - the grommet on the ECU loom doesn't fit the hole in the bulkhead very well, and a previous owner siliconed it in place. It may be that the grommet is tired, but it seems a little too small. Did the later Motronic/Catalytic loom have a larger grommet? It is possible that this non-cat engine was retro fitted, and the car is meant to have the later Cat equiped engine (it's a late 1992 car).

[Anthony 1,003]

The grommets are all the same size as far as I know, although sometimes they're not the firmest fit if they've been in and out a few times - that said, make sure that the hole isn't deformed from someone removing the grommet with a screwdriver, hammer or whatever.

 

Good luck with tackling the grot and sorting the old girls ailments out. If by "chassis leg valleys" you mean where they join the bulkhead, I suspect you'll find more grot hiding down there, especially on the drivers side where leaking brake fluid over the years causes issues. Just had the fun of tackling that job on one of mine - it looked OK from the engine bay side, but behind the carpet and sound-deadening inside the car was another matter entirely.

[Grim.Badger 15]

The grommets are all the same size as far as I know, although sometimes they're not the firmest fit if they've been in and out a few times - that said, make sure that the hole isn't deformed from someone removing the grommet with a screwdriver, hammer or whatever.

 

I've just checked the Vin on http://205gti.info/vin/vin.htm (thanks Griffo) and it's definitely a pre-cat car as it has 20CD62 in the number. The hole itself seems undamaged but I'll take a closer look soon.

 

The V5C also has the engine number, which my previous cars have never come with although I can't guarantee that is the original number without writing to the DVLA. I found the engine number plate jammed into the upper engine mount and will extract it and check it against the V5C (just out of curiosity really).

[Grim.Badger 15]

I'll hopefully get some more photos up soon.

 

I made my first big mistake with this project, breaking the windscreen when removing it On the plus side, I no longer have to worry about finding a safe place to store it! The metal of the surround is in poor condition in places along the base, where the scuttle panel and rubber surround overlap, with rust and holes. The metal that actually holds the windscreen is good though.

 

I will try to find time to take out the dash this weekend, so I can see both sides of the bulkhead.

 

The P/S inner arch is in poor shape, the aftermarket underseal has done a very good job of wrecking the bodywork. It's some kind of rubbery, orange, expanded foam stuff, and a test chunk I put in a jar was resistant to paint stripper, so any advice on removing it would be appreciated. Although the suspension turret appears to be in good shape, as does the part that attaches to the bulkhead, the rest of the wing seems to be knackered including all but one of the mounting points for the outer wing. The P/S front panel also seems to be junk.

 

The D/S wing on the other hand appears to be good, but does have a couple of holes and needs more cleaning back to check. It also has the aftermarket underseal though so it could have hidden horrors!

 

On a tangent, what do people think of the non-setting underseals like Hammerite with Waxoyl? I assume it is fine for small jobs and repairs, but in a major overhaul when space is available it is best to use the proper stuff?

[Grim.Badger 15]

The windscreen frame:

 

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

That's not too bad-I bet if you poked about enough on most 205s, you'd find the same

 

On a brighter note-it could be a rusty old rs turbo!! (boy could they rust-any missing underseal=frilly metal)

 

Windscreens are an art (which I haven't mastered) boy up here can have a screen in a 205 in less than 10mins, seem him do it on rally car-surprisingly rough but I guess it's how hard/where you push ie knowing what you're doing lol

Make friends with a windscreen fitter-hassle him when he nips out of shop for a fag-he'll either do screen for cash (or think you're a lonely strange man OR think you're hitting on him hehe)

[steve@cornwall 100]

Just make sure you save the screen seal, if you can find one breaking or at a scrappy, cut the seal to release the screen. I've broken a few trying to remove, but never broken one putting in.

[Grim.Badger 15]

Very little progress in the past few months, essentially all I've done is a little cleaning of the engine bay and removing the subframe. I did discover that a previous owner has mangled the front ARB, chiselling or grinding off one of the locating lugs (or I suppose it might have rusted off) see below:

 

 

I should probably sell, or break, the car as I don't expect I can make much more progress because of changes in my personal life. It's hard to make the decision though....

[GLPoomobile 958]

The bulb shaped bit on the ARB won't have rusted off. It will have been ground off as you suspect. Probably someone trying to fit non standard poly bushes that didn't have the right shape. Bit ironic if that's the case since the Peugeot bushes are already poly!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

The bulb shaped bit on the ARB won't have rusted off. It will have been ground off as you suspect. Probably someone trying to fit non standard poly bushes that didn't have the right shape. Bit ironic if that's the case since the Peugeot bushes are already poly!

 

I thought only 1 location lug is standard on the ARB's?

At least 1 should be enough anyway.

[welshpug 1,657]

yep, only on one side, thats why theres a different bush for left and right

Edited January 23, 2017 by welshpug

[GLPoomobile 958]

I misread where he said "grinding off one of the locating tabs". Yes, only one is correct, so if it's present on one side then the other bit is a red herring and probably just corrosion from the bush rubbing the paint and holding moisture against the bar.

[steve@cornwall 100]

And bare in mind that the arb and droplinks are unnecessary for mot and normal driving (I prefer mine without them) so on a budget rebuild can be left for final stages (if at all)