Help Fitting Wishbones And Hubs

[mowflow 67]

Started putting all my suspension bits together today but I left the garage defeated.

 

new parts are as follows:

306 Bilstein b4s with eibach springs

1.6 hubs with new febi hub flanges and febi bearings

Febi wishbones

First line drop links and track rod ends etc

SKF drive shafts.

 

I've assembled and fitted the struts no bother. Fitted the driveshafts then fitted hubs onto the shafts then hubs to the struts. The issue is that I can't then get the ball joint anywhere near the hole in the bottom of the hub. If I push the hub in as far as it goes it gets close but the angle is all wrong.

 

Am I doing it all in the wrong order? It looks like things would line up if the strut was compressed a bit.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

I have no experience of 306 front struts on a 205 so no idea/comment on those . When you say ' the angle is wrong ' do you mean the bottom ball joint pin ? New wishbones will have a very stiff ball joint and the pin may not want to move by hand . Tapping with a rubber mallet will get it to the angle you require .

Otherwise the problem lining up ball joint pin and hub bottom hole could be caused by having 309 wishbones or driveshafts , both of which are a little longer than 205 items and might cause an issue .

While on the subject of SKF driveshafts there are issues with these not fitting the hubs correctly . The angled part close to the thread can touch the rear of the drive flange so when you tighten up the hub nut the wheel bearing does not pull together correctly . I have just had this very issue and had to remove a little metal with a die grinder .

[Clapton_Is_God 21 1 Cars]

I had this exact problem last weekend to the point I was convinced the driveshaft was too long (even though I had measured it). In the end, I refitted the spring compressors and that was enough to eventually get it to line up. Obviously, you need to ensure the driveshaft is fully seated too.

[mowflow 67]

By angle I do mean the bottom ball joint pin. Difficult to explain without a photograph. The hole in the bottom of the hub angles like this \ there as the pin on the whishbone is vertical even when pushed as far back as possible.

 

I believe the 306 strut body is longer which is probably the issue. I'll try the spring compressor to see if it helps. It does seem like getting the hub higher will line it all up. I thought I might be missing a trick.

 

I'll also check the shaft for the issue with the lip.

[welshpug 1,646]

Probably just needs the bajjoint pin tapping over carefully, they can be very stiff when new.

 

306 struts arent noticeably longer, just more spring on the original car.

[mowflow 67]

I took some photos of this to get some further opinion. This is the drivers side with the shaft fitted but the hockey bolts in the mount loose.

 

The first photo shows where it all sits with the hub on the strut, and the shaft fitted through the hub. The wishbone is as low as it will go in this photo. When you pull it up to meet the hub the pin doesn't meet the hole

​

 

This is the situation with me pushing the hub inwards towards the middle of the car. This seems to move the inner CV joint to it's most compressed position, not sure if that's healthy.

​

 

It seems that if i fit spring compressors to lift the height of the hub the ball joint pin will locate as the arc of the wishbone brings the ball joint out. It just doesn't seem right that it should be such a struggle to bolt it all together. I do realise that when the car is on the ground the dampers will be compressed and therefor the hub sitting higher in the arch. Any further help or opinions?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Being that far out, Measure the shafts, they look wrong and quite often are, The amount of wrong stuff get;s sent back on exchange and if they check any of it who knows, Christ I;ve sent back loads of wrong stuff. I have had shafts that are too short before, never worked that one out

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

Hmmm you've changed that much you don't know what's wrong!!! That was me about 2 months ago lol (driveshaft wobble thread)

I put on one new driveshaft as intermediate bearing was rumbling, as diff was drained I thought I'd change gators on other side-result-I could hardly hold onto steering wheel when coming off roundabouts

I was 100% sure I'd ballsed up passenger side shaft as new one on drivers side must be right

Anyway driveshafts off/on/off/on (you get the idea) I put a known good shaft on drivers side and hey presto-sorted

I took new shaft back for refund and they didn't believe me

New shaft was too short

Long winded way off saying I sympathys, I'd try and stick old one in, at least that would prove shaft right/wrong, it's alien to think something new is wrong but it caught me out

[welshpug 1,646]

like miles said, the shaft looks too long

Edited May 3, 2016 by welshpug

[mowflow 67]

I don't have the old shafts as they basically fell apart when i removed them. With so much confusion regarding driveshafts online can someone please confirm what length the shafts for a 1.6 should be?

 

The ones I have are SKF supplied by mister Auto with part numbers and lengths as follows

VKJC - 4125 = 590mm

VKJC - 4980 = 840mm

 

As my hub flanges are 21 tooth base model ones would I be correct in thinking the only way these could be too long is if they were 309 base model? Unfortunately i've had them too long for a return so if they are wrong I'll be buying again.

[Anthony 1,002]

They won't be 309 base model (all BE 'box models used the larger 1.9 type ends) but that's not to say that they not wrong - there seems to be absolutely no QC or checking carried out from what I can see judging from the number of incorrect, faulty or plain badly reconditioned shafts that seem to get churned out, far too many to be the odd shaft getting muddled/swapped at the motor factor end IMO.

 

AFAIK the compressed lengths for 205 'shafts should be 600mm for the left hand (passenger) 'shaft and 840mm for the right hand (drivers) 'shaft.

[welshpug 1,646]

There is a 309 shaft with small CV ends and BE inners.

[mowflow 67]

These aren't reconditioned so could only be a case of they are manufactured to the wrong size. I'll get the tape measure out tonight and also double check the part numbers on the boxes.

[mowflow 67]

Removed the shafts and the compressed lengths are right on 590 for passenger side and 840 for driver side. Admittedly it was primitively done with a tape measure. Even measuring the passenger side against an old spare it's exactly the same.

 

I'm stumped.

 

Anyone want to buy a half built 1.6?

[bondo 6]

In which case make sure you have the correct wishbones - again often muddled for 309 ones.

 

309 on left 205 (with ribbing- good way to tell) on right

 

[Anthony 1,002]

If it was 309 wishbones fitted in error then it would be easy to get the hub to line up as the balljoint pin would be another 10mm odd further out.

[dcc 855]

What gearbox and diff is fitted? Iirc the later 396/xsara box and particular the diff does not let the shaft sit seated correctly.

[johnnyboy666 195 1 Cars]

I've had J&R shafts repeatedly send me 309 shafts instead of 205 ones, after about 4 attempts I gave up and fitted 309 wishbones to compensate. They were entirely convinced that they were selling the correct item, so it stands to reason that this might be the case with other sellers too.

[mowflow 67]

Gearbox and diff are the original ones.

 

The shafts are the correct length from all the posts and other info I can find stating the length of 1.6 shafts so it's not a case of the shafts being the wrong length.

 

That leaves a couple of potential places where the problem could be.

 

1. The wishbones are too short. This seems highly unlikely. They fit the sub frame and I don't think any car had the same yet shorter wishbones. It would need to be a weird batch that somehow went horribly wrong. Can anyone tell me the length of a 205 wishbone?

 

2. Something to do with the hub flange or bearing isn't letting the hub sit far enough back. Seems unlikely as the bearings sit at the circlip and the shafts fit snugly in. The shaft of the hub flange doesn't sit proud at the rear.

 

3. The 306 struts. Either I've mucked up assembling them or the length is making the hub sit too low. I have fitted spring compressors to one side and I can lift the hub high enough (still lower than normal road height) to fit the wishbones in the hub.

 

4. I'm being an idiot and just underestimating the amount of brute force, grunting, pulling, pushing and BFH action needed to fit all this stuff.

 

At the moment I'm thinking along the lines of A combination of 3 and 4, mainly because it doesn't involve me buying something again. If I compares the springs and force all this together the worst scenario is that I break something that was wrong and destined to get her dust on a shelf anyway.

[mowflow 67]

All joined up and bolted together on both sides now. Nothing snapped, exploded or caught fire (yet)

 

 

 

 

 

You will either think "genius" or "cowboy" when you look at this next picture. The spring compressors caused a bit of an issue. They basically just pulled the spring down from the top mount and as i was working alone it wasn't really possible to pull or push the strut up, push the driveshaft in and locate the ball joint all at the same time. No way you can jack dirrectly on the hub as the only flat, non rotating area is where the balljoint needs to go. So after looking at it for a while I realised pushing the bottom of the hub was the way to go. Luckily I had a G clamp that was just the right size to fit in there and 2 cranks of the jack lifted it enough to get the balljoint in easily enough.

 

[Ozymandis 96]

Now take them off and fit the pressed tin ball joint protectors on the pins......................

[mowflow 67]

Uch BUGGGEERRRRR! I forgot about those. I'd made some new ones out of a spare sheet of stainless as well.

[welshpug 1,646]

one thing I would do before you drive it is loosen the hub nuts with the suspension compressed and check how much plunge depth you have.

[mowflow 67]

Do you mean the pinch bolt holding the hub on the strut or the balljoint pinch bolt?

 

I'll take note as it's still got a long way to go before it's drivable.

[welshpug 1,646]

no, I mean the hub nut.

 

my concern is that if you had to go to such lengths to get things to fit is that the shafts are too long, I've never had to do anything like this to get a balljoint fitted.