Suspension

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

Hi Everyone,

 

I know this topic is probably exhausted beyond belief but I would appreciate anyone's opinion and feedback.

I Finally have put aside some hard earned cash and by the end of this year my cti will have a gti6 conversion done, as well as the engine I plan on converting my current non powered steering to PAS from the 306 and doing away with the rear drums and front brakes and using those from the gti6.

 

My cti is pretty much original, has done less than 50k miles but I was also going to upgrade/refresh the suspension to 205 bilstein b6 front and back along with the eibach pro kit springs. From my reading on here this is the alleged preferred/best set up. The beam itself seems ok.

 

I have also managed to secure what I think is a good deal of £590 all in for brand new billies and springs .

 

This is not a track car and will always be just road use. Am I buying a much improved set up to compliment the conversion and is the price a good un ?

 

Thanks

 

[jord294 91]

Iirc, cti have slightly thinner torsion bars and arb.

 

As the gti 6 engine is quite heavy, the eibachs may get put under too much strain.

 

You need better advice off members on here who are familiar with suspension set up on gti 6 engined cars

[Anthony 1,002]

My opinion is that 205 GTi Eibach's (7001's) don't work with GTi-6 conversions as they sit too low with the additional weight.

 

I've not personally tried them, but 206 GTi Eibach's (7025's) are supposed to work well and there's a few people on here running them now - J_Turnell recently posted his experiences having fitted them if you do a search.

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

Thanks for your input guys, so the B6 shocks and dampers are ok and only concern are the springs. Would I be better leaving it all is it is now ??? or would that be worse ?

 

I will try searching for that post you quoted Anthony. Thank you

[nomis 12]

Can't answer your suspension question, but the GTi6 sounds like a pretty nice upgrade for a CTI, along with the brakes etc.

Be interested to hear how it goes when it's done.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

As Anthony mentioned I fitted the 206 eibachs, although the 7024's not the 7025's. Only around 10mm difference in ride height between them, the 24's being slightly lower. Works out around a 20-25mm drop from standard with a gti-6 engine and xsara box. I'm using them with b4's and find the ride to be really good. I found the 205 eibachs would bottom out far to easily over the bumpy stuff and the Konis I was running were to stiff. The 206 springs have a higher spring rate and give more suspension travel keeping the front end nice and tight but also compliant. I bought mine from a German company on ebay for around 80 quid delivered.

[2052006 10]

Or try the 106 phase 2 Eibach pro-kit (7016?). I have them - ride height is lowered, but not too much, wishbone angle is correct.

[Anthony 1,002]

Got a picture of them fitted at all?

[2052006 10]

​IMG_1049 by pug2052006, on Flickr

 

Bear in mind it's on a slight downwards slope here

Edited April 15, 2016 by 2052006

[2052006 10]

​P1030544 by pug2052006, on Flickr

 

This is on the flat, but again, the boot is loaded with stuff at this point. I don't seem to have any photos on level ground whilst it's unloaded. Anyway, works pretty well, and better, I think (certainly from a ride height/wishbone angle perspective) than my old SBC springs.

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

​IMG_1049 by pug2052006, on Flickr

 

Bear in mind it's on a slight downwards slope here

 

Never a favourite colour for me, but I see now why people love the miami... stunning...

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

So conclusion is 205 B4 front and back with 206 springs either 7024's or 7025's. I was hoping to drop the ride height a little for cosmetic reasons but main aim is to also improve the handling then it is now. As the B4's are a lot less then the B6's would you suggest swapping the rear beam for a newly reconditioned one to get max benefit ?

 

Incidentally why B4's over B6's is it just price difference and not much gain ?

 

Do like the Miami, lovely pics too thank you and for everyones comments

Edited April 18, 2016 by sp_en_ny

[jord294 91]

If you have no history of axle being refreshed, I would advise getting it done.

 

That way, you know all your suspension is in excellent condition

[Weser 30]

Would it not be a good idea to change the front suspension to the gti wishbone setup if your aiming to improve the handling. I have never driven a cti with the gti setup but having both a gti and cti I definitely think the gti handles a lot better.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

As above, if your not running the GTi setup i would change to that first. Here is a pic of mine to compare, it has settled slightly since they were fitted. This is with grp n top mounts which I would also recommend.

 

‹

 

If the car is for road I would go for the B4's, if your going to be doing a few track days then maybe the b6's or challenge dampers maybe more suitable. Changes to the back end make a huge difference, more so than the front in my experience. I run a 309 gti beam with 306 arms and a 24mm arb and it feels very planted, running a bigger arb is one of the best changes IMO, turn in is notably improved. The 309 beam isn't to everyone's taste, maybe just get your existing axle checked over and rebuilt if necessary and fit a 106 gti 24mm or saxo vtr 22mm arb and see what you think. Replacing both the bushes and mounts is also well worth doing while it's off.

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

Certainly a lot to think about thank you. Think I will start with the rear beam and get that looked at and refreshed. I did mention on here a while back about putting on a 309 rear beam and there were quite a few negative comments.

 

I have probably not had the best of cars over the years but for me the best I had in terms of handling was believe it or not the original shaped Tigra, that stuck to the road like nobodies business, since acquiring the 306 that also feels exactly the same and as James described very well planted. In the CTI I feel like I am walking on eggshells when cornering especially if its wet.

 

When I have the conversion done I don't want to feel like I a tip toeing round every bend. Oh an it will never be a track car, just a bit of fun for me to drive on weekends.

[Weser 30]

I would definitely change to the gti setup its a completely different beast. However although the cti does handle differently and is not as solid in the corners I never feel like I have to tip toe. Maybe there is an under lying issue somewhere? Are you heading to the 10th May essex meet. I am planning to and I could bring my cti over to compare?

 

I'll put my 2p in - if it was me doing it I would put the standard gti front setup on, make sure the rear beam is in good working order. Do the engine (and brake if you want) upgrade and see how it is and how you like it. Then if you are not entirely happy upgrade the suspension to the B4s etc. However I am like a lot of people a big fan of the standard gti setup and for road use is pretty damn good.

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

Hi Andy, yep am planning on making the meet in May. The last one I went to one of the guys took it for a spin and said everything felt as it should which was reassuring. as they quite rightly pointed out a cti is not a gti and so there will be differences which I understand and accept. I guess doing the conversion I just want it to be the best I can get it to be within reason. I think the fact it did throw me off a roundabout some time ago I am probably over cautious/sensitive with the thing.

[Anthony 1,002]

What tyres are you running? In my experience, providing the suspension isn't completely knackered (especially wishbone bushes and ball joint holes) then tyres are the single biggest thing that make 205 drive/behave in a manner that gives you no confidence.

 

Budget tyres are often little short of a liability - they're refered to as "ditchfinders" for a reason...

[sp_en_ny 17 1 Cars]

At the time I had a mixture of tyres that may also have been 8 or so years old and been on the car that had been sat still for 8 years. Since the incident I have put the 15 inch speedline wheels on with Yoko prada spec2 tyres all round brand new. Whilst these have not let me down or given any reason for concern I think after what happened it just feels like it is going to happen again. prob a confidence thing more than anything.

[Anthony 1,002]

Ah yes - a mis-matched selection of odd ageing tyres that have probably hardened from sitting certainly wouldn't be ideal!

[welshpug 1,655]

i'm not personally a fan of those tyres, odd as I loved their predecessor but they got it so wrong with the parada

[jackherer 543]

Has anybody got any experience of either EW7003001VA or EW2204001VA Eibach springs on a 205? They both seem to be intended for the 206 but are different to the ones described earlier in this thread.