[Project] 205 Dimma S16 Turbo Converting To 4X4

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

if using 440cc injectors: 440cc/360cc*244=300BHP?

4 bar fuel pressure (3bar+1? bar boost) raised to 5,7bar (4bar +1,7bar boost): 5,7/4*300 ~ ~> 425bhp...ish.... if fuel supply and delivery is perfect.

 

 

Don't add the boost; 4 bar regulator = 4bar difference over the injector. It 'sees' 1.7 bar at the others side, so the pressure difference is 5,7-1.7= 4 bar again.

That's why you pressure regulator has connection to the manifold and not to open air.

300bhp is probably the better number.

 

odd all you guys are maxing out your injectors so soon, are you running horribly rich or something?

Yes, to avoid knock and burned pistons..

Edited September 28, 2017 by wicked

[petert 587]

odd all you guys are maxing out your injectors so soon, are you running horribly rich or something?

 

I wondered that too. Max duty rate should be 85%. Beyond that you're into open & closing times and fantasy world.

[petert 587]

 

 

not common at all in the UK , I have seen it in Europe, price varies a lot, some countries it is more expensive than SUL.

I guess if you're not growing sugar cane locally it can be prohibitive.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Black MI - My remapper told me the 8bit map of my MS3 ecu has so poor resolution, making it difficult to achieve sufficient accuracy from idle to max rpm at any boost level. Other aftermarked ecus are much better. Maybe this is partly the difference in your scenario compared to mine, where my engine tends to overfuel in idle, resulting in often required cleaning of the spark plugs...

 

What ECU are you using?

 

I'm also running MS, but a MS3 Pro.

It has a lot of settings related to injector small PW input and voltage correction etc. all related to the control of the injectors.

Resolution can be chosen in mine so if there are non-linear areas in either MAP or RPM it is easy to re-bin the map and get more resolution in probelmatic areas.

 

Overfuelling at idle .. not possible to just pull off some fuel really?

Have you calculated the ReqFuel correctly? To be able to get low enough pulsewidths at idle?

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Blackmi

To be honest, I have always steered clear of the mapping part, leaving this to people I trust. :-)

 

But i have the readout of the ecu in case you care to take a peak and see for obvoius mistakes. Any leaner and the car fails to start

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

But starting is controlled by a multiplier table? What version of MS do you have?

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

Another problem is bump steer

 

 

Something like this should be able to improve your bump steer problem.

 

https://www.tricompetition.com/fr/chassis/direction/kit-rotules-direction-reglable-pour-peugeot-citroen.html

https://www.tricompetition.com/fr/chassis/direction/biellettes-de-direction-renforcees-205.html

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Most excellent...this is an easy way to solve the bumpsteer issue :-)

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

finally- after some cranking over it starts and oilpressure is fine.

 

Also all wheels are spinning and gearchanges are as they should be. If it was not raining sobad right now, I would be out testing it

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=734_tycSsSc

 

​ ​ ​

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

It sounds a bit rough, but it's alive .

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

It is very rough - but having been sitting in the garage for more than a year, it seemed happy to be let loose :-)

 

https://youtu.be/tELXYODUfuo

 

Afterwards I found the vacuum hose to the ecu had a leak, causing overfueling and drowning of the sparkplugs :-P

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

It's looking like good progress, once it's sorted should be very good fun. Sounds like a Subaru at the minute though lol.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

I belive i found the 2 major items causing offset engineparameters. First item was a leaking vacuum hose to the MS ecu. The other was for some strange reason, the injectorsize was wrongly set. Listed at 315cc, clearly the requested fuel table was changed alot when putting in the correct 800cc, adjusting inection time from 5,3 ms to 2,3ms - Now it idles and fires on all 4 :-)

 

Secondly I got the MS upgraded from the 250kpa sensor to a 300kpa, so Just need to confirm sufficient fuel delivery and I will find a 4x4 dyno to do the final adjustments...to bad the summer is passed and no more trackdays are planned for this year....

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Brilliant stuff!

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

well dynoday has passed with its ups and downs...

 

I tried to prepare best possible - fitting new plugs, double checking everything and most importantly a good wash :-)

 

 

then things started to create issues - first a fueled the car on the way to the dyno - justto find there is a leak in the fueltank! untill then I had only fueled it about 50% without isses, but not wanting to risk running lean due to low fuel, I had to fill it completly minutes before heading to the dyno ..idiot :-P

 

So first hour passed by emtying the tank to a level certain not causing any spills - avoiding a potential fireball. Just imagine all that effort wasted haha! Next issue was small misfires at different rev ranges, triggering a sensor and wire check without succes....eventually leading to the brand newplugs fitted, causing the issue. Seem i missed purchasing plugs with builtin resistor,causing so much noise,the oversensitive Megasquirt gen.1 failed to fire occasionally...well 2 hours spent bfore even starting to run in the settings. Other findings, was leaking radiator fluid. I run the utterly expensive oil based (yes it can burn) cooling fluid with a boiling point of 180C...dripping close to the manifold/turbo due to a poor o-ring in the original plastic thermostat housing of the xu10j4rs. Next was the driveshaft gasket had come off, causing a mess in the right wheel arch.

 

Despite all of above, we got it up and running, and the drivetrain worsk 100% as it should. What a relief :-)

 

added a video that shows how "behaved" it feels on the dyno compared to old map:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGwBaB7CVas

 

end result is a very safe and low torque map that hopefully does not overstraing the drivetrain to much. the low boost, keeps the gt3076R turbo below its optimum working range, keeping it lasy. This is a good starting point and I will keep it here untill I hopefully next year can test some trackdays - without drivetrain or clutch whoes.

 

End result is a decent 380bhp/400Nm - 100bhp down from prior setup.

 

left is a to do list of:

 

- fix fuel leak

- refit driveshaft gasket and clean up the greasy mess :-P

- construct steel thermostat housing with hosenipple and clamp connection (is there a direct fit available?)

- remove bump steer by new lower A arms

 

...well back to work :-)

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Nice work!

 

What kind of coolant do you use??

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

2 updates in one day - maybe this is a bit to much :-)

 

sorted the gasket on the driveshaft and tidyet up - quick 10 min.job.

 

Had a good look at the thermostat housing and went up on the addict, browsing through my old parts. Found I could make an old xu9 housing fit - even its not perfect, in many ways its better than before. Not only did I loose the brittle plastic part, but is also moved further away from the turbine housing - hopefully not getting the same local heat.

 

 

 

[JamPug 22]

Great work !

 

Baker bm do a CNC billet Ali thermostat adapter if that takes your fancy.

 

http://www.bakerbm.com/205.php?data=thermostatgti6

[mmt 15]

Well done!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Another thumbs up from me.

 

I don't normally like 205 body kits, but yours looks great, especially with that blue.

 

Off topic perhaps but I hope you don't mind me asking:

What's the basic spec of your engine pls? I ask because your dyno results are indicating 380bhp on an apparently 'lazy' set-up.

My topic about my Xsara Turbo - which is not really an Mi anymore with it now getting an XU7JP4 block and an RS head - speculates about 300bhp.

So I'm interested in why yours is making 380 lazy, plus what you think mine might make?

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

DrSarty.

 

Well i did put a lot of thinking into what parts to use for my engine To meet my target for output vs expected lifetime. After looking into a lynx setup and even procuring the supercharger, I eventually decided a high power output setup built to be used - using turbo. As this would allow me to adjust boost electronically.

 

Starting point was a healthy gti-6 engine. I had the head ported and gasflowed by a local specialist with very good references. Kept cams original. Then I shortended the inlet manifold, to save space to ensure room for sufficient cooling. Constructed a 4-1 turbomanifold to fit the gt3076r turbo with external wastegate and 3" downpipe. I lowered compression using wössner pistons and H-rods to quite low 8,5:1 - loosing low end torque and fast boost, to gain hopefully lasting high output :-)

Finally stable, good fuelsupply and large injectors should help avoid running lean. Headgasket was 3 layered steel from a diesel

 

my original power aim was +400bhp, but engine is capable of a lot more as the rs head flows excellent, but no french drivetrain will take it :-(

 

To your setup, I should check your build thread soon to see what you are up to :-) I did for reference run the same engine with stock internals and about 250bhp on a gt2860 turbo, for a short period untill it blev a headgasket.

 

If you can keep it running cool, use non agressive timing, and an uprated headgasket, the stock internals should do fine with that power level. For 300 bhp I would think about stronger rods and pistons built for boost, as some day will come where 300 bhp is boring and next target is 400.....would be nice to know the engine can cope.

 

Call it planning ahead :-p

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Minor update:

 

replaced my old 235/610-17" slicks with road tires and OZ superleggeras, I picked up cheap. Surprised to find they are allmost ½ the weight - hopefully it should improve handling a bit.

 

looking forward to an oppetunity to find out :-)

 

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by lybker

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Attention is currently to address the items on my to-do list:

 

Bump steer

So far new SPOOX wishbones, allows for longer drop-pins. Next step is to cut and lengthen the wishbones to accommodate the wider track avoiding unrealistically long exposure of threading of the joints.

 

Look forward to do the act of adjusting in bump steer. How realistic should I be in my expectation - meaning how many degrees / minutes are unnoticable during driving?

 

Leaking fuel tank

Dropping the tank, I found a 30mm split had occurred in the welded area of the fuel tank. I took some effort to re-weld it and had 3 goes at this untill it was 100% tights (using petrol instead of water due to the lower surface tension)

 

So in short - Progress is still moving on nicely :-)

[welshpug 1,657]

if you do plan to use those compbrake wishbones I would weld on some ribs to stiffen them up, I've heard of a few failures under heavy braking where they have bent, an Aussie member posted a picture of his a few years back.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Love the superleggera's!