[Project] 205 Dimma S16 Turbo Converting To 4X4

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Great! Waiting for parts is always annoying...

I really like the idea of making a mock up with a 3D printer and then order the final part...

[mmt 15]

Looks nice. Always a pleasure to see things being engineered out of nothing.

 

Crossing My fingers for it to work.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

woop woooop

 

 

Now I am the owner of a 205 4x4! ​ ​ ​

 

The propshaft came today,and it fits perfect, I am so pleased to see all 4 wheels rotating simultaniously ! :-)

 

My "205 To Do" list is down to

• bleeding brakes
• remapping to a lower power output
• wheel alignment.

 

Do anyone have a good allround setup for wheel alignment, noting I am not looking to set any laprecords, but instead have a drivable setup with good grip and easy cornering for trackdays?

 

front caster is as negative as it can be in my setup (unmeassured yet). My initial idea is then to -1½ degree camber rear and -2 to 3 degree in front with a bit toe out on both front and rear axle, with the latter close to neutral - would this work as I hope?

 

Should setup be different for 4x4?

 

 

[petert 586]

all wheel drive should be the same as fwd, ie front and rear camber should be identical, front caster should be as positive as possible, try +4mm toe on front and +2 toe on the rear. If it's too unstable under heavy breaking reduce rear toe to zero. Enjoy! What a fantastic project. Well done.

Edited September 21, 2017 by petert

[welshpug 1,657]

depends very much on tyres.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Thanks for the feed back :-)

 

My intention is to swap the slicks for regular street tyres to offload stress in the drivetrain - at least untill i get a feel of component strength. No need to break something expensive on the first shakedown test.

 

@PeterT - your suggestion matches my thinking. I have built the rear hubs like on a Renault Clio...meaning i can adjust wheelsetting with washers, so it should be straight forward to allow easy iterations untill it drives as I want....hopefully :-)

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Well at this point I was hoping to share a youtube vid...showing me coasting sideways with a huge grin on my face. This is put a bit to the side, for a couple of reasons.

 

Mainly when I tried to crank the engine after 1½ years not being fired up, I had 2 minor fuel leaks. As I run 2 pumps in series the pressure is fairly high: 4bar regular + 2 bar boost puts strain on the hoses and joints

 

Being utterly terrified of fuel leaks,I took the effort to relocate my axillery fuel pump to outside the cabine, and will fit a fitting with squeezing ring to the numb end of the pump to ensure its tight in any condition.

 

Also all joints are now fitted with 2 hoseclamps...just to be sure - nothing is left to chance

 

 

Second tick on the to-do list was wheel alignment in rear - it has now around 1,5-2degree camber - it is sooo easy to adjust, what a pleasure :-)

 

Hopefully the car will be on its first drive by this weekend...

[calvinhorse 870]

Just remove one of the fuel pumps

[petert 586]

Why do you need to run at 4 Bar? The difference in flow between 3 Bar & 4 Bar is only 15%.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

4 bar was because in the first setup I used only 440cc injectors, causing a burnt piston at 485bhp. Now mitigating this by a swap to 800cc, you are right - I might as well swap fuel regulator to the original 3 bar. I will consider, as I anyway need to remap the engine, reducing power output. No need to blow up my drivetrain ;-)

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I'd say it will be mid range torque that's the problem rather than outright power. You can limit the torque by mapping the boost pressure by rpm but also by gear ratio. That's the way I would go anyway.

[welshpug 1,657]

your 3rd & 4th gears will be the weak point as they're the 6 speed ones.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

I will have to see how I can lower torque and make a more linear power output vs rpm, I might be forced to install a weaker spring in the external wastegate - current output is a tad below 365 ft/lb (500nm) at 6600rpm.

Edited September 27, 2017 by lybker

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Fixed the fuelpump today. Not pretty but hopefully effective :-) Next stop should be remapping, so will need to book time, should be fun, however the nearest 4x4 dyno is 200km away :-P

 

 

Another problem is bump steer

 

After raising the steering column by 15mm or so, bump steer is now much more apparent, and I need to compensate by lowering the connectionpoint of thetrailing arm joints into the hub.

Is there an off the shelfkit that would do the trick?

If not, any ideas/tricks are more than welcome and what is the size of the conus in case I want to scout ebay? Thanks!

 

 

[welshpug 1,657]

moving the column shouldn't alter bump steer, only the rack itself ?

 

200km is nothing for mapping, many of us here go 300km+ not even the same country

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Sorry, langual "misfire" i ment...i relocated the steering rack - not the column. Thanks for clarifying :-)

 

And in regards to distance, its the end result that counts, right

Edited September 27, 2017 by lybker

[petert 586]

I've seen a solution where the hole for the tie rod end is drilled out parallel, then you can use rod ends & spacers to lower the end of the arm.

 

To do the job correctly, you'd ream the hole to size and use a shoulder bolt.

 

You guys whinge about distance. Come over to Australia.

Edited September 27, 2017 by petert

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

You guys whinge about distance. Come over to Australia.

 

Your fuel prices are about half of ours...

 

http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/

 

 

485Bhp from 440cc injectors sounds almost too good to be true or utterly lean... I think they are rated upto 250bhp.

Edited September 28, 2017 by wicked

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

More like 350bhp @ 3 bar I would say not running 100% duty cycle.

At 4 bar more like 400bhp, so no wonder you got a burned piston.

 

I'm running rock stable idle and 1000cc Injector Dynamic injectors on my 2.2 T16. Incredible impressed by those injectors and the idle quality. Able to put a small coin on top of the GTi6 inlet and let it idle at 850rpm.

So consider them if you are changing, or the 800cc version of it. They are indeed flow matched and dead-time matched etc.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Indeed maybe a bit more than 250 bhp, but clearly no 485...

I based my guess on my own car; have 360cc/min @ 3bar and almost reaching the 90% @ 220bhp.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Wicked - makes sence. Using a bit of abstract assumptions - of course this is all wrong :-)

 

220bhp at 90% duty ~ 244bhp at 100% duty

 

if using 440cc injectors: 440cc/360cc*244=300BHP?

4 bar fuel pressure (3bar+1? bar boost) raised to 5,7bar (4bar +1,7bar boost): 5,7/4*300 ~ ~> 425bhp...ish.... if fuel supply and delivery is perfect.

 

No matter, What caught me off guard, was I never did anticipate a power output above 400bhp - and as the wideband lambda said 10,5-11 - I thought this would be ok, no asking for reduced power = expensive mistake.

 

Lesson has been learned the hard way, so mitigation is new engine fitted with 800cc injectors and knockdetection has been added - fingers crossed I never have to experience this again

Edited September 28, 2017 by lybker

[petert 586]

 

Your fuel prices are about half of ours...

 

 

That's a very interesting document. Do you have E85 there? It's a lot cheaper but not if you consider you use 30% more.

 

 

 

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

Black MI - My remapper told me the 8bit map of my MS3 ecu has so poor resolution, making it difficult to achieve sufficient accuracy from idle to max rpm at any boost level. Other aftermarked ecus are much better. Maybe this is partly the difference in your scenario compared to mine, where my engine tends to overfuel in idle, resulting in often required cleaning of the spark plugs...

 

What ECU are you using?

[welshpug 1,657]

odd all you guys are maxing out your injectors so soon, are you running horribly rich or something?

[welshpug 1,657]

 

That's a very interesting document. Do you have E85 there? It's a lot cheaper but not if you consider you use 30% more.

 

 

 

 

not common at all in the UK , I have seen it in Europe, price varies a lot, some countries it is more expensive than SUL.