Rear Brake Locking In Reverse

[dawning 11]

My 205's decided to intermittently lock one of the back wheels in reverse after standing for a couple of days. It would roll without any resistance then suddenly lock at very low speed and felt like it was trying to mount a kerb. Problem seemed to go but I decided best not to drive it and left it where it was.

 

Anyone experienced this? Should I have just driven?

 

I will take the brake apart when I get a chance to go back to the car, probably time to replace the drums anyway, I have never checked them.

 

Is there any way of telling if girling or bendix without taking apart?

 

Anyone recommend a good make of brake drum kits?

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[Anthony 1,002]

Possible that the friction material has come away from the shoe(s) and is jamming the drum, or something along those lines. It should be obvious enough when you remove the drum I'd guess.

 

1.6 GTi drums are all Girling from memory.

[dawning 11]

Thanks for the reply mate, was probably best not to drive it then. its an xs, got bendix on the front but I think the only way to find out is to take it apart which is quite annoying as the car is not here.

[welshpug 1,646]

most likely Bendix rears, look at the shape of the wheel cylinder where it pokes through the backplate from the rear, and the size and location of the union.

 

one type has an oval shape the other round, union on one is next to the bleed nipple and the other type has the nipple above the union.

 

 

either way, the method of dismantling is the same.

[dawning 11]

Cheers welshpug thats very helpful. I figured I will probably be needing new shoes so thought I might as well buy the stuff before I dismantle to make things simple. The car is at my dads so I can get him to check

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

I had this on my 205 GTI 1.6 , just one side was locking in reverse . Stripped the drum down and the wheel cylinder was at fault , one of the pistons was rusted solid in its bore .

[Ozymandis 96]

most likely Bendix rears, look at the shape of the wheel cylinder where it pokes through the backplate from the rear, and the size and location of the union.

 

one type has an oval shape the other round, union on one is next to the bleed nipple and the other type has the nipple above the union.

And the third most common base Bendix type has a round hole with the union next to the bleed nipple.

 

The round Girling/Lucas with nipple above union use m10 tube nuts.They are not handed and only one diameter bore.No internal pressure regulator for GTi setup.

 

The round Bendix with nipple next to union use m12 tube nuts. They are handed and come in 2 different diameter bores use 19mm for a servo-ed setup.Has internal pressure regulator.

 

The oval Girling/Lucas with nipple next to union use m12 tube nuts.They are handed and come only in 19mm diameter bore for servo-ed setup.Has internal pressure regulator.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Ozymandis

[Ozymandis 96]

PS get the short brake pipes from the cylinders to the flexi`s made up i bet the old ones wont come out and be fit to re use.

[Ozymandis 96]

Here`s a link to a good quality Bendix 19mm dia wheel cylinder kit

 

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/brake-kit-drum-brakes/bosch-0-204-114-063_g3859_a0300!204!114!063.html

 

Here`s a link to a good quality Girling/Lucas 19mm dia wheel cylinder kit

 

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/brake-kit-drum-brakes/trw-gsk1238_g3859_a161GSK1238.html

 

 

For some reason the link to the first kit is truncated, !204!114!063.html

wants adding to the end,

its the Bosch brand one at £49.97

Edited February 11, 2016 by Ozymandis

[dawning 11]

Thanks for taking the time to post that Ozymandis, really appreciated.

 

Do you know if the Bosch kits come with all the little bits that the TRW ones do?

 

I think I I may have to take it apart to be totally sure what I need to buy.

 

With the brake pipe, is it the kind of think a garage will be able to make up on the spot usually?

 

 

Thanks

[Ozymandis 96]

Yes the Bosch kit has all the bits, I think the only bit not there is the pressed tin hub nut covers.

If your careful the old ones are reusable, assuming their not a rusty mess or pre mangled.

Any garage can do you brake pipes cheaply enough

Have you done any car work before?

[dawning 11]

 

still not 100% have not seen in person but will be solved soon

 

The pipe looks quite good weirdly

[dawning 11]

I have done a bit of work on the car replaced driveshafts, engine mounts, arb bushes and suspension arms. I plan to do the wheel bearings, rear beam and hopefully gearbox and clutch. Got a noise coming from either gearbox or wheel bearing I think :/ Its done about 98K 1990 so things are starting to get a bit worn out

Not got a garage to put it in, first car I have ever really worked on, have a little bit of experience having worked on my motorbike but im trying to learn so peoples help is much appreciated

Edited February 11, 2016 by dawning

[Ozymandis 96]

The drums can be a bugger to get off.

Long bar and 34mm socket for the nuts,( best replace them with new,

sometimes you can swap sides with em so a fresh part of the" bash it in to lock it in place" is presented.)

Nut and tin cover kits are on ebay for 4 quid for both sides.

 

The shoes wear a low point on the drum, and you cant pull it off.

So you have a rusty ridge that you cant get over the linings.

Try a couple of kettles of boiling water over the drum to expand it.

Or work out how to back the auto adjusters off with a pokey thing through a little hole .

It depends on whether you have Bendix "snail cam" adjusters or Girling "strut type" adjusters as to just how.

Before you put the drums back on ,attack them with an angle grinder and grind off the rusty ridge.

Don't be precious about it if you stray a little on the running surface, bevel em .

Shoes springs adjusters etc, best chuck the lot, bits aren't expensive.

Tippex is good to mark the springs etc for reassembly

Be aware the girling adjusters are handed , don't swap sides or they auto adjust to not work

 

The handbrake cables are easy to remove from the shoe levers if you back off the 13mm adjuster nut at the end off the handbrake lever, 3 pozi screws get the plastic shroud off.

 

The wheel cylinders two 10mm af hex head setscrews.

Take the bleed nipple out first and break the tightness on the tube nut, it will stick to the pipe so don't try and unscrew it just loosen a bit.(mole grips)

Then take out the two 10mm hex head screws, tap the cylinder with a hammer to break it free.

Hold the tube nut with a spanner or probably mole grips in my experience, and unscrew the actual cylinder off the pipe.

The screws are often too rusty so be prepared to have to replace them.

 

If you clamp the flexi`s with some clamps or mole grips and rag (not tight theres no pressure to hold back, just a drip to stop) no air will get in the front system)

Bendix front calliper's are notorious for snapping the bleed nipples when trying to bleed the brakes, best stay away from that ball game.

 

When rebuilding, put the shoes, springs, adjusters etc together as a unit and fit them from the bottom first , hold them apart all the time and they will stay a single piece to handle.

 

The hold down springs and caps can be a fiddle with pliers etc, a tubular tool to push down with is the best way.

Don't open the auto adjusters up a lot, or you wont get the drum over to refit.

 

When its all back together still up in the air , work the handbrake and brake pedal and that will auto adjust it. spin it to be sure, a little scrape or drag isn't a problem.

Its easy to pull it on a few clicks and make sure they start to drag.

Don't adjust the lever for a short handbrake, it wont allow enough free movement to auto adjust.

I think its 7 clicks on the lever, check your Haynes.

 

Then take it on some gravel ,turn in and pull the handbrake YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

[Ozymandis 96]

Looks Bendix to me, also looks like a new pipe and bleed nipple so probably a new cylinder.

[Ozymandis 96]

Thats 32mm not 34mm. typographical error

[dawning 11]

Thanks so much for sharing that mate. Makes things a lot clearer, I will refer to this when I work on the car.

 

I will get new hub nuts for sure!

 

Have been meaning to bleed the brakes all round for a while now, I have Got bendix calipers on the front though unfortunately... hmm

 

Hopefully I can confirm which type it is tonight and get the parts for the job, will let you know how I get on with it.

 

Thanks again.

[Ozymandis 96]

Bargain here

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161954061398?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360831247279?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

 

[dawning 11]

Confirmed I have bendix brakes on the back.

 

Thanks for the links those shoes are cheap!

 

This not bad either, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-PAIR-OF-REAR-WHEEL-CYLINDERS-PEUGEOT-205-1983-96-BENDIX-WITH-SERVO-VWC415-416-/331747329179?hash=item4d3dae849b:g:BjUAAOSwwPhWi61T

 

Getting more confused now because some of the bendix wheel cylinders say with servo and some say without.

 

Possibly get the TRW kit as I need everything to do it soon.

Never used them but http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-205-Brake-Shoes-GSK1215-Rear-TRW-MKP00117-42411T-424145-42416L-New-/231842324501?hash=item35fae12015:g:zKoAAOSwuAVWvC6c

I will not use mister auto again it takes too long, and the bosch kit only seems to be available through them.

 

I will hold out and see what I can get from Peugeot on monday, they are cheaper sometimes, and come with a guarantee as well.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

[Ozymandis 96]

Confirmed I have bendix brakes on the back.

 

Thanks for the links those shoes are cheap!

 

This not bad either, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-PAIR-OF-REAR-WHEEL-CYLINDERS-PEUGEOT-205-1983-96-BENDIX-WITH-SERVO-VWC415-416-/331747329179?hash=item4d3dae849b:g:BjUAAOSwwPhWi61T

 

Getting more confused now because some of the bendix wheel cylinders say with servo and some say without.

 

Possibly get the TRW kit as I need everything to do it soon.

Never used them but http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-205-Brake-Shoes-GSK1215-Rear-TRW-MKP00117-42411T-424145-42416L-New-/231842324501?hash=item35fae12015:g:zKoAAOSwuAVWvC6c

I will not use mister auto again it takes too long, and the bosch kit only seems to be available through them.

 

I will hold out and see what I can get from Peugeot on monday, they are cheaper sometimes, and come with a guarantee as well.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

Presuming you have a servo you want 19mm bore cylinders, non servo cylinders are 20.6mm bore and give more braking for the same line pressure.

 

I would buy that kit you linked to , TRW are what Girling/lucas are called nowadays.As Bosch are now Bendix too.

So both brands are proper original equipment and guaranteed.

 

I think Peugeot will have your pants down for a similar kit, if you need i will send you the part number for a Peugeot kit?

 

7 different wheel cylinders to choose from lol

 

Nearly all "base models" i`ve seen have the round hole Bendix type you have.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ozymandis

[dawning 11]

Oh it has a servo in the engine bay, makes sense now cheers.

 

If you have a peugeot part number for a kit that would be appreciated, I did have a look but could only see individual part numbers, my local pug are usually really good at finding parts so don't worry if its too much trouble. You are probably right but I have been surprised occasionally, the suspension arms where around £21 a side from pug, with 2 year guarantee.

[Ozymandis 96]

The listing of the ebay kit has the part numbers, all the 424 numbers, quote those and they can tell you whats available at the moment.

Often there are multiple part numbers for the same parts.

Also try your local Citroen place use that Citroen number, and the Peugeot ones, they may be cheaper, or not.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Ozymandis

[dawning 11]

I am tearing my hair out now, order the TRW kit I linked to and it came today in the TRW box with stickers over the edge to show it has not been opened. One of the wheel cylinders is in a opened slightly dirty bag and the piston is much further inside the cylinder.. The other one is how it should be still in a sealed bag.

I have had to send about 50% of the car parts I have got through ebay back, it makes me so annoyed.

 

Here is a pic of the wheel cylinder that was in the torn bag.

 

[Ozymandis 96]

I am tearing my hair out now, order the TRW kit I linked to and it came today in the TRW box with stickers over the edge to show it has not been opened. One of the wheel cylinders is in a opened slightly dirty bag and the piston is much further inside the cylinder.. The other one is how it should be still in a sealed bag.

I have had to send about 50% of the car parts I have got through ebay back, it makes me so annoyed.

 

Here is a pic of the wheel cylinder that was in the torn bag.

 

brake.JPG

Chill dude, the pistons are free to move its no problem.

Its all fine just use them.

[dawning 11]

Ok, thanks for the reassurance lol. Just found it really odd that one was open and wound back. Spoke to the ebay seller and they said its sent out direct from TRW and they are contacting them about the prob.

 

I had assumed it would be fine but didn't want to fit and find out it doesn't work. I am a bit paranoid since the driveshaft I bought from mr auto was broken on arrival and I never got a refund for it.

 

So I should probably just get on and fit it at the weekend

 

Thanks again for your help mate.