Pas Pump And Belt Jumping A Tooth

[commievid 8]

Hi all,

 

Was investigating an issue I was having with the cooling fans not kicking in and it overheating, almost to the red.

 

Turned out to be a fuse in a shunt box, and all is fine again.

 

However, I noticed this when just having a look around:

 

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The belt on the PAS pump has jumped a tooth/rib.

 

The pump was changed over mid September, and has been perfectly fine until what I can only assume was a few days ago, topped up screenwash and nothing was out of the ordinary then.

 

I've tried to release the belt tension to put it back into place, only to find it seems to naturally return to this state when the engine is started.

 

Despite this, the pump still works and there's no belt squealing or anything else out of the ordinary.

 

I suspect at this rate though the belt will likely be munched sooner rather than later.

 

What's a mystery to me is why this would be happening now given it's been fine for a while. Any ideas I could pursue?

[boldy205 75]

I guess it's an automatic tensioner? Might it be warn and hot holding a decent tension? Is the belt sat correctly on the other pulleys?

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

is that a turbo engine or a gti6? or which?

[commievid 8]

It's a GTI6 engine. Not sure about the tensioner but it is the one used in the Rallye? The crank and alternator look fine.

 

It's a little difficult to apply tension because the bit that does it has sheared off, you can probably just about see evidence of that. I fear changing the bracket would be too much effort.

 

I will try and increase the tension somehow and see what happens.

[welshpug 1,657]

most likely a worn tensioner bearing.

 

the non ac arrangement has a bolt you wind down from the top to increase the tension, you do need to slacken the two bolts on the side.

 

increasing the tension wont help I doubt.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Looks like its rubbing on something as its being thrown outwards judging by the blurry scoring, this something is probably steering the belt over 1 vee.

 

Is the pump mounted with proper bolts as they are spacer bolts that hold it bang in line with the other pulleys and if loose or misaligned could also cause that.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Could also be a problem with the crank pulley damper

[commievid 8]

Dang, either aren't cheap are they. Will slacken off the belt and see if I can give said pulleys a spin and see if they're worn.

[commievid 8]

Access is really tight, not 100% sure if the tensioner was making a scraping sound when spinning.

 

Looking straight down at the belt run, it does look like the pump is off, but it seems strange that this would happen now and not anytime before.

 

Does anyone have any pics of how the power steering pump should be mounted? i.e. any photos of the spacers so I can see? On mine it looks like three washers are used:

 

 

Is there another one at the bottom? If so, that'll be pretty grim, no way I can reach that.

 

You can also see clearly the tensioner bit has come clean off. Just wanted to loosen the bolt on there and well...

[welshpug 1,657]

from what I recall there should be an 8mm thick spacer on the top and bottom fasteners on the pulley side, upper is a cap head hex screw and the lower has a larger shank under the head to locate into the bracket.

[commievid 8]

Ok, servicebox suggests those spacers and that bottom bolt are NFP, 8mm though, so will get some from eBay.

 

So you can see there are three washers there, basically, swap that over for the 8mm spacer and that should be the correct arrangement? So pump -> spacer -> bracket -> bolt?

 

Will have to figure out how to do the bottom in situ, but I'll give this route a go for now.

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

They are not washers despite it saying they are, what they really are, are chamfered spacers that hold the pump in line. You are far better off getting them off a scrap car as I priced them up from the dealers when I had to get mine and because of the 5/10/20 pack thing it was going to work out at £69 just to get at least a full set

[welshpug 1,657]

they aren't chamfered, just straight sided 8mm spacers, the lower bolt sits in a slot, so you drop the pump into the gap with the lower bolt in place then fit the upper.

 

if you want I can have a rummage in my stocks of fasteners etc.

[commievid 8]

Let me know if you do find anything, that would be smashing!

[James_K 6 1 Cars]

Ok, servicebox suggests those spacers and that bottom bolt are NFP, 8mm though, so will get some from eBay.

 

So you can see there are three washers there, basically, swap that over for the 8mm spacer and that should be the correct arrangement? So pump -> spacer -> bracket -> bolt?

 

Will have to figure out how to do the bottom in situ, but I'll give this route a go for now.

When I spaced mine I used 5 washers as I didn't have the proper spacers. You'll need to take the belt off so you can access the pulley bolts (top and bottom) through the pulley wheel. It's not difficult to do once the belts off.

I used a magnet to hold the washers in place whilst threading the bolts through

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Ok here's what i meant by the chamfers, its the bolts that have them not the spacers (its been a long time since i had to deal with this issue and being at work all day and trying to remember didnt help)

 

as in the picture they go into the wide slots on the pump bracket and the spacers keep the pump in line with the pulleys, quite clever but a pitfa

[commievid 8]

Half revival and update.

 

Got a couple of 8mm spacers from a well known internet auction site a couple of weeks ago, but only had a chance to do the job now, as the wife's car is having serious trouble so she's been using the 205.

 

Looks like the spacers did the job. There is a weird spacer at the back underneath the inlet manifold, which I was able to insert a couple of mm more, to allow just the extra space to slot these spacers/washers in.

 

Had to take the front grille and slam panel off to get visibility let alone access to the bottom bolt, which didn't have any spacers at all. Used a stick with some blu tack to hold the washer whilst I attempted to get the bolts through. Luckily, both bolts looked original, the image above for the bottom one.

 

The three spacers used previously weren't all saved. I forgot I had a magnetic tool, so only one of them was salvaged. They've dropped down to where the alternator is, and hopefully, they'll just find their way out of the car. Hope I haven't jinxed it.

 

Reassembled, tightened up the tensioner, fired her up and everything is fine, all aligned, no squealing.

 

Now to sort out the wife's motor, much more of a headache (SEAT Ibiza 1.2 2007).

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Let me guess, worn timing chain guides on the SEAT so it's jumped the chain.

I did my mothers about 18 months ago when her Polo chose my driveway of all bloody places to do it. That was after about 3 years of me telling her to have it done and her telling me the nice man at the VW garage said it didn't need it.

Good luck if I'm right! Coil packs also prone for failure.

[commievid 8]

Possibly spot on! It's an awful clatter, which could suggest the bottom end, but I'm staking my hopes, wallet and time on it being the timing chains and/or possibly the hydraulic lifters/rockers arms. Be an effort to get to the timing chain as is, so I'm taking the camshaft carriers off too for the latter. If there's any more damage, gonna ditch the car.

 

I'm loving the ironies I've been having with the cars. This SEAT is the newest car we have, bought from new, serviced every year, oil changes in between on occasion, yet this has happened.

 

I've had the 205's head gasket changed, despite my other car being a Rover engined Elise. Had a couple of Rover K-engined cars over the decade, not a single head gasket issue.

 

Really learned over these last few years that cars and reputations count for nothing, and even impeccable servicing and full service history counts for nothing. It's all completely random and chaotic.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

First thing to do is see if the cam timing is right or not. That engine is famous for this fault although I thought they had fixed it by 2007, my mothers car is 2003.

On hers, as soon as I pinned the crank the cams were both way out from their pins going in.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Oh and from memory it was an arsehole of a job too... All timing case and sump had to come off.

[commievid 8]

Yup, timing case, sump, camshaft carriers in the case of checking on the tappets. Loads of bolts of silly sizes, 5mm allens and 18mm/15mm bolts which can't be reused apparently, lots of sealant to get it all back together.

 

Friend of mine always berates that he has to deal with a cambelt every 4-6 years, yet chains seem to consistently do this and in our case, it's lasted 8 years. I always see hear of Mini's and their 1.6 turbos doing similar. I've never wanted to do a cambelt because of how infrequently I would need to do them, yet here I am about to embark on a chain. What a year.

 

I just have this horrible feeling that I'll do all this and it'll still be there, signifying it'll be the bottom end. Mentally preparing myself.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

The only bolts I changed were the camshaft sprocket and crank sprocket bolts. All the rest I re used.