New Year, New 205. Road Legal Track Car Full Rebuild

[Malc 45]

Been a while since updated, however not that I haven't been doing much, more the fact I can't be bothered posting updates. Anyway it's finished! Well sort of, I mean is a project every really finished? Still got the door cards to sort, poly windows and plans for more suspension upgrades. But never the less it ready for mot and track days. I had always planned to finish before June,and well since it's the 31st May, I declare it close enough as I am off on holiday Thursday, so the mot can wait until then. Will then get some road miles, a spanner check, then plenty of track days. Some pics below, It's not the cleanest 205 by far, still on original 1989 paint (with a couple of touch ups here and there), however the running gear is spot on and that's what matters to me.

Good picture from the front, hard to tell it has a huge intercooler, oil cooler for the charger, oil cooler for the engine and a standard sized radiator.

 

Decided also to do away the with key start, mainly due to hitting the blooming key with my foot when getting in, So took an idea from Dobboy's first Saxo and fitted a starter switch where the fag lighter was, ignition and fuel pump switch where the clock used to be and a fan switch, still a couple of toggles to get but looks fine

 

Also got my air box made up out of an old battery box, ECU now enclosed and less hot air to the inlet, still to tidy up a bit (hence silver tape) and insulate the orange air duct but looks quite neat.

 

Anyway more to come later in the year as planning more camber on both front and rear, also possible brake upgrade/change to the front, I love the Lotus AP Calipers, but not so much the need for spacers. Possibly nothing wrong with spacers, just not very keen on them myself.

 

Thanks again to MacCrash for kindly donating the shell to me for this build, and Dobboy's for helping with the brake pipes and a few spares. Just looking forward now to wasting Dobboy's new mini on the track and showing him what a real car is!!

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

lmao

 

Car is a credit to you, Malc... legend

[Malc 45]

Thanks Colin, certainly looks a bit better now than it did back in December, and it does feel good to get and old 205 up and running again.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Looks great Malc! It's came up well.

 

The non-sunroof shell certainly makes a better looking track car, and the white looks a lot better than your old black.

 

It's got the same stance as the old one, but looks different, but still ready for business!

 

You think that red bit of flexi will be ok? will that not collapse of full throttle?

 

You should flog your white C5's and buy my black 1.9's for it.

 

p.s. I'll hopefully have the mini back on it's feet for when you get back (just waiting bits coming), and we can get them up to KH and see if you can keep up! ha ha

 

Well done that man.

[Anthony 1,003]

Nice work saving this and quick work too - it was only what, 4-5 months ago that it was a sad looking bare shell with numerous rust holes

 

Frankly it's embarrassing how little I've done over the same period

[Malc 45]

Thanks Anthony, Yeah picked this up between Christmas and Newyear, should have been done quicker but work commitments and having a wife always slows progress. There was a few difficult moments but happy with the result.

 

Dobboy, yeah thinking about selling the C5s, will kill off the Yokos over next few track days and then sell.

 

Red flexi is on the inlet side of the charger so no pressure, all the other inlet pipe work is solid, hence will be fine. No real change to previous set up.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Aye Malc, but i was thinking it would be under big negative pressure and collapse with the draw?

 

You wouldn't have noticed it on the old set up cos you had the cone straight on to throttle body?

[jackherer 543]

That negative pressure will just suck more air in through the filter, the only way it could collapse the hose is if the air filter is restrictive and not allowing enough air in.

[barneys66 124 1 Cars]

Looks great - going to be a whole lot of fun that's for sure.

 

Remarkable rate of work too. Enjoy!

[Malc 45]

Well that's it officially road legal, was off on holiday most of June so only got a chance last weekend to put it in for mot, failed on loose headlight (easy fix), one dodgy tyre (again easy fix, however God knows how I manage to get tyres in the state I do, must be far to hard on them at the track), but mainly they were not happy with the rear brake pipe arrangement, as I had run brake lines internally, however again an easy fix. I noticed a small fuel leak and speedo wasn't working, quick fix here and dropped in this morning for re-test, passed with flying colours, and no bribes required.

 

Just taxed it (blooming daylight robbery for a toy that won't really see the road that often) my BM does over 30,000 a year and costs less to tax, a lot less!

 

Anyhow, still a few jobs to do, it is an ongoing project I suppose. Will get some miles on this weekend and a track day booked for 22nd, so looking forward to thrashing the knackers off it, but more importantly wiping the smile off Dobboy's face and showing up his new mini for the true girls car it is! (Last bits not true, was out in it last weekend and very impressed)

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Magic.....go on, get it booked for tomorrow? I'll tell you how it looks in my mirror ????

[Malc 45]

Well got in around 120 road miles over the weekend, and all fine. However a bit of a bonus yesterday was some track time, I had no intention of tracking the car until it had a few miles under its belt to sort out any teething issues, however I went to Knockhill to see how Dobboy was getting on with his new cooper S, went well to be honest (well from the passengers seat anyway), However after three sessions Dobboy decided that the Cooper S may look good stuck in the gravel for a session, so that killed his day short, therefore since the 205 was sitting there idle, we transferred all the stickers across and headed out for a session. All seemed good, I didn't give it 100%, but all in all went okay, couple of minor things.

 

The engine seemed down on power, putting this down to two things, either a small leak on the chargers inlet pipes (will do a leak test and check), or my battery box/air filter set up is too restrictive. Once the boost pipes are checked I will try with and without to compare.

 

Another thing is excessive oil coming out the breather, the oil was at the max before I went out on track, and filled around 300/400ml of oil into my catch tank (well empty lager can to be more precise), Dobboy thought my oil pressure seemed high sitting around the 3/4 mark. Going to check all breather pipes etc for blockages, however any other thoughts/ideas on this welcome. Could this maybe be a worn engine?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Think this is an older 205 dash showing the oil pressure scale on it.

 

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=205gti+dashboard&view=detailv2&&id=BDD5526DF9B33942CDD3466F223359D5669D249D&selectedIndex=96&ccid=zlpbDisU&simid=608040677238574177&thid=OIP.Mce5a5b0e2b140ad055e4e7ddedfc5ce2o0&ajaxhist=0

 

Your's was sitting about 6Bar at start up iirc judging by the scale?

 

I'm pretty sure my two GTI6 engines have started up at 3Bar, and it falls to just under 2Bar when warm.

 

 

What oil grade have you got in? and can you remember what sender do you have fitted?

Edited July 5, 2016 by dobboy

[Anthony 1,003]

Your's was sitting about 6Bar at start up iirc judging by the scale?

 

I'm pretty sure my two GTI6 engines have started up at 3Bar, and it falls to just under 2Bar when warm.

Treat the standard oil pressure gauge as a vague indication showing relative pressure only - the absolute values need to be taken with a pinch of salt such is the often questionable accuracy.

 

That said, the figures you're saying for Malc's engine don't sound too far off to me from 205 GTi-6's I've seen - I'd expect something around 5-6 bar at idle on cold oil dropping to around 1.5-2 bar with hot oil, and with the revs up it'll likely be 6-7 bar cold and should be around 6 bar hot.

 

That said, chances are that oil pressure is nothing to do with oil in the catch tank though.

[Malc 45]

Well, took off all the breather hoses last night, and cleaned out, too be honest they were near spotless, also removed the inlet rocker cover and checked the compartment below in-case this was clogged, again spotless. Just going to accept that I seem to have a high crankcase pressure, so have rigged up a new catch tank and will just monitor the oil consumption here.

 

Also checked all the charger inlet pipes and hoses for a potential boost leak, again these were all fine and no signs of any leaks. So guessing that my battery box/air filter set up may be restrictive, so looking at other options here, either just refit a filter onto the throttle body and duct some cool air to it, or another option (for track use only) would be to modify a n/s headlight ducting cold air from this to the filter box, this would give me the required cold air, however I think I may be getting heat soak through the ducting to the throttle body, so will look to insulate this.

 

Anyone else found a distinct lack in power to to heat soak within the intake air temps?

 

One last job is to duct some cool air to the brakes, more on this later.

[Malc 45]

Treat the standard oil pressure gauge as a vague indication showing relative pressure only - the absolute values need to be taken with a pinch of salt such is the often questionable accuracy.

 

That said, the figures you're saying for Malc's engine don't sound too far off to me from 205 GTi-6's I've seen - I'd expect something around 5-6 bar at idle on cold oil dropping to around 1.5-2 bar with hot oil, and with the revs up it'll likely be 6-7 bar cold and should be around 6 bar hot.

 

That said, chances are that oil pressure is nothing to do with oil in the catch tank though.

Anthony, above sounds pretty much about right, I was not worrying to much as the gauges I expected were more just a guide as you say, anyway its been the same for the past three years, so no real concerns

[blandy 29]

Well that's it officially road legal, was off on holiday most of June so only got a chance last weekend to put it in for mot, failed on loose headlight (easy fix), one dodgy tyre (again easy fix, however God knows how I manage to get tyres in the state I do, must be far to hard on them at the track), but mainly they were not happy with the rear brake pipe arrangement, as I had run brake lines internally, however again an easy fix. I noticed a small fuel leak and speedo wasn't working, quick fix here and dropped in this morning for re-test, passed with flying colours, and no bribes required.

 

Just taxed it (blooming daylight robbery for a toy that won't really see the road that often) my BM does over 30,000 a year and costs less to tax, a lot less!

 

Anyhow, still a few jobs to do, it is an ongoing project I suppose. Will get some miles on this weekend and a track day booked for 22nd, so looking forward to thrashing the knackers off it, but more importantly wiping the smile off Dobboy's face and showing up his new mini for the true girls car it is! (Last bits not true, was out in it last weekend and very impressed)

 

 

Just out of interest what was the issue with the rear brake piping being inside?

 

Mine are inside and may put a mot on mine this year so just wondering

[Malc 45]

Blandy, it was more to do with where the flexi pipe joined the hard pipe, I had came through the floor with front flexi pipes (due to length required) and didn't have the correct union, apparently my modified bracket wasn't acceptable even thought it was solidly fixed. Funny thing is I stuck on a couple of jubblie clips to a standard bracket (as a temporary fix) and it passed.

[Malc 45]

Oh well after two very successful track nights and some good runs, the engine decided enough is enough and has given up. It has over the last while been venting oil from the crankcase breather, which has steadily been getting worse, The funny thing is the engine doesn't smoke or lack power, just on Monday this week I had a track night and kept up with some so called faster motors, and as most nights go, not a thing could get past. Any how did a compression test tonight and here's how it read starting with cylinder, 4 - 50psi, 3 - 48 psi, 2, 49psi, 1 - f all, drop of oil in the plug hole tested again and got 45 psi, thinking something was up I tested them all another twice, I took the inlet boost pipe off to mimic full throttle, and again same readings with cylinder 1 showing next to nothing, hence the culprit. Thing is with that low a compression how does the thing start and run so well (expect for pissing oil everywhere)

 

Obviously a rebuild is on the cards, hence did the sensible thing and spoke to Rick Walker regards going high boost, however after a good honest chat, and realising that although 300/400BHP would be fun, it does lead to more unreliability and stress on other parts. At the end of the day there will always be someone that will be faster than you on a straight, however as a fun, fast and reliable 205, nothing really (bar race breed and super cars) gave me the notion to get more grunt, as the handling, braking and poise of the car made up for it. Anyway I have decided to go on the look out for a good 2nd hand bare engine and swap everything over, so if anyone knows of a good engine going please get in touch as I would prefer to get the car back in action asap.

[welshpug 1,666]

which are you calling cylinder one?

 

number 4, closest to the timing belt, is the typical failure point of the Headgasket on an XU10, every one bar one I have done has gone there.

Edited August 25, 2016 by welshpug

[Malc 45]

My mistake yeah the cylinder nearest the timing belt is the one that's gone. I was reading 1 - 4 left to right.

 

Really finding this a strange issue, due to how the motor runs, however I am certainly no expert in the engine department. Should have it out tomorrow and will start stripping at the weekend, would be delighted if it was just a HG. Definitely no water mixing with with the oil though.

[welshpug 1,666]

I think only one of the many I've done mixed oil and coolant, they don't go there, they go between combustion chamber and coolant alone.

 

common misconception that a HG means oil and water will mix, that's fairly rare.

[Malc 45]

Well engine is out and starting taking all the ancillaries off, I'm going to do a leak down test to confirm if Piston rings/valves etc. Question is, I am confident my head is in good shape, however if this is worn piston rings, can these be replaced from the bottom with out taking off the head?

 

Obviously need to inspect the bores and if shot it will be a rebuild bottom end, first time I've opened an engine so apologies if silly questions. Keen to give this a go so any advice welcome.

[welshpug 1,666]

pistons will only come out the top with the rods attached, so its sump and head off time.

[Malc 45]

A sorry state of affairs,

Engine out and cleaned up the engine bay today, after all the hard work getting it looking clean over the winter/spring, it had turned from bright white to oily black, a bit of gunk, elbow grease and a jet wash, it's looking respectable again.

 

Engine is striped of all parts, however run out of tools today as don't have the torx fittings to remove the head.

 

Well at least the rebuild has started, should hopefully be ready next weekend..........................................................I Wish!!!!!!!!