Absolute Joker!

[forbeslongden 32 13 Cars]

Has anyone been keeping up with 205s listed on eBay? If so, hark at this shed being passed off as some sort of bargain!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1991-Peugeot-205-GTI-1-6-Red-71-900-miles-with-Sunroof-/221962638442?hash=item33ae01146a:g:gD0AAOSwcBhWZgIN

 

This vehicle is quite possibly the worst example GTi I've seen come up for sale in a long, long time... I assumed all these rotten boot floor, sill damaged, ripped seat, rough idle cars had either long gone or were still rotting in a drive ready to be bought for 500 notes.

 

Am I missing something here?

[AlexRS2782 136 1 Cars]

Well that's definitely a bargain lol

 

I cant say I'm that surprised however - I got used to seeing the various Series 1 / 2 / Fiesta RST's in far worse condition than that, in my time as an RS Owner, being priced stupidly like this, so I suppose it wasn't going to be long before the 205's went the same way.

[mrfirepro 127 1 Cars]

I may just be me, but I find it quite amusing the way he describes every bad point in the positive, and that professional welding...the least said about that the better

 

at least he sorted the leaking sunroof issue we ALL have...just put it in a garage...Genius...can't help wondering what we'd do if it rained whilst driving......

Edited December 8, 2015 by mrfirepro

[Clapton_Is_God 21 1 Cars]

I've never seen a one lady owner, two owner car before...... he's right, that is unique!

 

I must remember to watch out for those dwarf walls as I pop out in my newly acquired 80's hot hatch, bought for my grocery run.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I don't know what the problem is, all these inflated prices make our good cars worth more money, I'm happy with that.

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

It's a lot money for having a leaky sunroof and a car that needs to be garaged.

 

But as Thomas said these prices shoot up the good cars and the parts.

 

No complaints here

[2-Pugs 57]

I see what you are saying. But I think you are missing the point. For any classic car - and the 205GTI is fast heading this way - the cars that always fetch good money are those with low owners, low mileage, provenance and history. Fact is, if you haven't got that, you can't get it back. The cars with a dozen owners, a ton of miles, and not much history, are never worth as much to the collectors market, no matter what their condition is. So granted, this car is scruffy and needs work, but once that is completed to a decent standard, this will still be a low owner, low mileage car with provenance and history which will be desirable to the sorts of people who are now buying them.

[forbeslongden 32 13 Cars]

Plenty of different opinions on this car for sure, but let's have a look at what we have presented before us here, we have a Cherry Red 1991 1.6 - I maybe mistaken, but isn't there a massive percentage of red 205 GTi's still about? It's a 1.6, let's be honest, most collectors would seek out the 1.9 litre car and shun the notion of the 'mere' 1.6 car.

 

Sure I get that a low owner / low mile car is hard to obtain but if we are really honest with ourselves here, wouldn't we go for a average miles 6/7/8 owner car that was half the price of this without the dodgy welding, leaking seals, no cambelt history, lumpy warmup idle not to mention the fact that there's no MOT on this car and it needs further welding before even getting close to being road worthy.

 

In the case of this car, it's no better than the 400 quid Miami 1.6 I bought last year, the difference being, the last owner of my car wasn't a chancer; he knew the car needed work and as it stood it needed another 400 put into servicing ut now I've got a vehicle with an MOT, new cambelt, an engine that doesn't often stall and can be driven without the water feature in the rain, the only difference is my shell is on 170,000 and I'm owner number 7 - I wouldn't be able to sell my car for half that looking at what they actually sell for on completed listings at this current time even though my car is 100% more solid than this.

 

I think in reality, when it knuckles down to it, this example is clearly going to have the same 20+ year old pipes and seals so I don't think it's worth even a thousand without the seller putting some serious effort into sorting even the smallest things out, how about sorting the trim so it all matches? Why not put it through an MOT? Maybe spray some Cherry in the boot after sorting that rusty weld out? Show us under the rear seats / inner wings.

 

I'm all for the price increasing on the 205, it's about bloody time and hopefuly those breaking them for profit will be priced out of the market before long leaving good examples that sell for even better money, is today that time? No, is this car a glimpse at what's coming? I reckon so.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I dunno, i know a guy with quite a few restored old ford RS', and he asked me to give him a shout if i ever seen a cheapish early original red 1.6 going. Obviously that one's not cheap, but point being there is also market for red 1.6's.......probably more so if they're phase 1, low mileage, low owner etc, for a restorer/collector etc.

 

Who know's the guy might get his asking price if the right person see's it......

[forbeslongden 32 13 Cars]

He's reduced it once already I think. Shame you're far away as I'll have a cheapish Cherry for sale once it's put back together and got 12 months ticket.

[S@m 156]

Off topic but was that alarm system in the jack position behind the headlight a Peugeot dealer fit accessory?

 

My diesel had exactly the same system in exactly the same position, where they'd drilled the holes for the bracket was the start point of some lovely rust and the wiring coming through the bulkhead was routed by a blind man - so up to the standard of dealer fit stuff! - oh and it didn't work.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

 

I see what you are saying. But I think you are missing the point. For any classic car - and the 205GTI is fast heading this way - the cars that always fetch good money are those with low owners, low mileage, provenance and history. Fact is, if you haven't got that, you can't get it back. The cars with a dozen owners, a ton of miles, and not much history, are never worth as much to the collectors market, no matter what their condition is. So granted, this car is scruffy and needs work, but once that is completed to a decent standard, this will still be a low owner, low mileage car with provenance and history which will be desirable to the sorts of people who are now buying them.

Bingo. Someone prepared to put say £20k+ into a top line restoration will not flinch at £4k for a base car that meets their requirements, which will likely be, history, low miles, low owners. As Rob says, if the hasn't got that, you can never get it. The condition of the rest is largely academic, as long as its more or less complete, as pretty much every part will be replaced or reconditioned anyway.

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

Goes without saying that the price is steeply inflated for the condition of the car... if you look at the other end of the spectrum on ebay with Group A (old homologation) cars being offered for £45,000, hell of a car but don't think you can pass the full build costs (i.e. labour) onto the client, I hope they do sell though. The 205 that is the subject of this thread is worth what someone who wants it is prepared to pay, I think the days of £500 GTi's are in the past now.

[Bobbafett 49 2 Cars]

My last 1.9 was a low mileage (70k) with only a couple of owners, but I worried about it quite a lot and didn't want to drive it in the rain etc. It sold for the full asking within a couple of hours of putting it on eBay.

 

My newest one has 120k miles, and has had 15 owners! I picked it up cheap and it had a few barry modifications (which have now been reversed).. It has a dubious past and no history before 2009. But I don't give a s*it because it has hardly any rust and drives better than my old one by a country mile. I love ranting it down the shops in the rain not giving a s*it, and the sheer enjoyment of driving it will always trump anything else. I couldn't care if it's worth 2k or 20!

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

 

 

Bingo. Someone prepared to put say £20k+ into a top line restoration will not flinch at £4k for a base car that meets their requirements, which will likely be, history, low miles, low owners. As Rob says, if the hasn't got that, you can never get it. The condition of the rest is largely academic, as long as its more or less complete, as pretty much every part will be replaced or reconditioned anyway.

And then in another ten years we may be where the mk1 cooper/cooper s' are and people pay obscene amounts for log books! Lucky for me I've got a few, £1800 each if anyone's interested

[GLPoomobile 958]

My tuppence worth....

 

Taking in to account what was said above avout low miles, low owners and provenance, would I want to buy this? No.

 

It's not low miles, not in the proper sense (the really collectible ones tend to be less than 50k).

 

Lady owners, sold as a positive point? Well, I know it's un-PC of me but I'm not sure I'd want a 205 that has been used all it's life by ladies, which with the lower mileage makes me think it's been a shopping/school run car. A big presumption I know. It may not have been thrashed, but has it truly been cared for?

 

Neglected bodywork? If they can't look after the cosmetics and trim, has it been serviced routinely? I wonder how often the oil has been run low through lack of attention.

 

Ok fine, you can put these things right with a comprehensive resto, but why pay through the nose for the base car? It's not truly low mileage, it doesn't have provenance so it's only a low owner car.

 

As for the seller, he's a typical clueless used car dealer. He talks a good game, but it's obvious his knowledge on 205s doesn't stretch far. He's picked that 205 up cheap and he's banking on a big payout fast sell without investing anything in tarting it up first. And he thinks he can do that because 205s are becoming rarer, more desirable and more expensive. And he probably will make a good profit, some mug will take it.

[Bobbafett 49 2 Cars]

some mug will take it.

Not without an MOT for that money I don't think.

[willis 18 1 Cars]

 

 

Plenty of different opinions on this car for sure, but let's have a look at what we have presented before us here, we have a Cherry Red 1991 1.6 - I maybe mistaken, but isn't there a massive percentage of red 205 GTi's still about? It's a 1.6, let's be honest, most collectors would seek out the 1.9 litre car and shun the notion of the 'mere' 1.6 car.

 

You sound like Loyd Grossman in through the keyhole!

Edited December 10, 2015 by willis

[willis 18 1 Cars]

Off topic but was that alarm system in the jack position behind the headlight a Peugeot dealer fit accessory?

 

My diesel had exactly the same system in exactly the same position, where they'd drilled the holes for the bracket was the start point of some lovely rust and the wiring coming through the bulkhead was routed by a blind man - so up to the standard of dealer fit stuff! - oh and it didn't work.

Yes, my GTI has a factory/dealer fitted alarm in the jack position. I don't think this works either, and looking back through the car history it went in once or twice with faults in the early nineties when it was new!

[2-Pugs 57]

I can't seem to 'Quote' on here for some reason. Never mind, bear with me.

 

The point I'm getting at is that the demographic of buyers is changing, and there are people who buy 205s now with a different agenda to us lot. I don't disagree with any of the above. With my enthusiast hat on, I agree with all the sentiments - especially the ones like "wouldn't we buy a 6/7/8 owner car for half the price" - yes course, and not caring about the value or number of owners since it is such a great drive. I'm with you. But buyers like that are not on forums. Take your enthusiast hat off for a moment and imagine you're a wealthy buyer who has neither the time, the knowledge, nor the inclination to pick through small ads, they simply want a fine example of a 205 GTI to look at and perhaps drive now and again. Spend any time browsing the likes of 4-star classics, at classic car auctions, the NEC event, anything like that, and you see plenty of cars which are offered at what seem like monopoly money prices. It defies logical explanation, it's not something that is easy to relate to as an enthusiast running a fairly cheap car, but at the end of that day, that's how the market goes with old, desirable cars. And there's almost always one thing in common about them. Yes, they have been prepped to a high standard, but they always have that base line history underneath which makes them appeal to the speculative buyers and collectors out there.

[willis 18 1 Cars]

I can't seem to 'Quote' on here for some reason. Never mind, bear with me.

 

If you're on an iphone just tap anywhere on the piece you're reading and "quote" appears at the bottom right...

 

It can be a bit flakey as you can probably tell!

Edited December 10, 2015 by willis

[GLPoomobile 958]

I can't seem to 'Quote' on here for some reason. Never mind, bear with me. The point I'm getting at is that the demographic of buyers is changingp, and there are people who buy 205s now with a different agenda to us lot. I don't disagree with any of the above. With my enthusiast hat on, I agree with all the sentiments - especially the ones like "wouldn't we buy a 6/7/8 owner car for half the price" - yes course, and not caring about the value or number of owners since it is such a great drive. I'm with you. But buyers like that are not on forums. Take your enthusiast hat off for a moment and imagine you're a wealthy buyer who has neither the time, the knowledge, nor the inclination to pick through small ads, they simply want a fine example of a 205 GTI to look at and perhaps drive now and again. Spend any time browsing the likes of 4-star classics, at classic car auctions, the NEC event, anything like that, and you see plenty of cars which are offered at what seem like monopoly money prices. It defies logical explanation, it's not something that is easy to relate to as an enthusiast running a fairly cheap car, but at the end of that day, that's how the market goes with old, desirable cars. And there's almost always one thing in common about them. Yes, they have been prepped to a high standard, but they always have that base line history underneath which makes them appeal to the speculative buyers and collectors out there.

I absolutely agree with all of this, and have said the same is previous discussions about high priced 205s. But this one doesn't really fot that bill does it? The type of buyer you just described will go for the £10k tidy low mileage ones we sometime see. If they have the money to fritter, why spend it on one that needs a load of work?

[2-Pugs 57]

Agree, someone like that won't be buying this one, my point was it had the potential and basis to be raised to that standard and therefore that price by someone else.

[Andy_C 50]

What Rob said. I've spent the last 21 years working in the classic car sector and seen all sorts of weird stuff. Hot hatches are one of the cars with a real buzz right now and my only reservation is that few dealers in reality know anything about them beyond the low mileage headlines.

 

A wealthy person will simply want something they can enjoy true but there will be relatively normal people who have some spare cash too and buying a low mileage "mint" 205 which has never had the beam looked at and spent time sat doing nothing might take the glow off - assuming we agree that a good 205 generally is one with fresh and pin-sharp mechanicals to underpin the shiny paintwork?

 

The one low miles car I viewed fell smack into this category. And wasn't worth the money being asked either IMO.