Ripped Off

[ATK 140 1 Cars]

Am I missing something? It's an old french hatchback, buyer beware. Up to the buyer to do all checks before buying.

[large 33]

Sorry Dave, but your not coming across well.

I'm not going back and reading all the posts (like yourself I can't be arsed to read stuff).

So to sum up YOU didn't go through the cars history fully, YOU didn't check over the car fully, YOU could see a problem with the car (dash lights) and YOU still paid well over £1600 for the car!

[large 33]

According to the garage, there was nothing holding the gearbox in place.

I call bull s*it for that! If there was nothing holding the gearbox in place it would have fallen out!

Edited October 18, 2015 by large

[daveb-uk 1]

Sorry Dave, but your not coming across well.

I'm not going back and reading all the posts (like yourself I can't be arsed to read stuff).

So to sum up YOU didn't go through the cars history fully, YOU didn't check over the car fully, YOU could see a problem with the car (dash lights) and YOU still paid well over £1600 for the car!

 

Blame me all you want. I made my choice and am an easy target especially if you consider yourself a competent mechanic. But you are twisting the point with the dash lights - you cannot know if a light is not working until it's supposed to work. The fact that it didn't masked the overheating. I thought that point was very clear.

 

I still bought a car from someone personally recommended on this forum by a senior member, who made loads of his profile within the scene, who slated another car that was for sale as rubbish and that he would never sell rubbish, who described the car as coming with 'loads of history' (which turned out to be true for the wrong reasons), who wouldn't agree to it being properly looked over by my mechanic, and who since I ran into problems has ignored my texts. I haven't said a thing on here that isn't true. Everyone else can judge, especially if they're looking to buy.

[daveb-uk 1]

I call bull s*it for that! If there was nothing holding the gearbox in place it would have fallen out!

 

I am quoting directly what the garage said, I honestly don't care whether you believe me or not. when I took it to them, I told them I thought the engine was moving about. this, they confirmed when I called back. specifically, the gearbox. The garage was 20Ten (they of the Clio Cup race team), the guy I bought it from mentioned in passing to be a personal friend of the owner.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Don't all the dash lights come on with the ignition ?

[welshpug 1,657]

they should do...

[daveb-uk 1]

Don't all the dash lights come on with the ignition ?

well i guess I'm just an idiot for not knowing that

[speno 239 2 Cars]

Mot record shows nothing before that point

 

As for "was fine for a bit", as I pointed out above the dashboard electrics weren't working when I bought it, three days after I did the central steering column was smoking so it went to an electrician, hey presto stop light

what about the other points I made Dave

205 dash lights again are hit and miss

welcome to the 205 world

I've just purchased a 911 the clutch is a bit stiff , i took it for a test drive first but i still purchased it . Im not going to start moaning about it to the seller

it was sold as seen

[Bobbafett 49 2 Cars]

Honestly mate just put it down to a learning experience. If I went to see a car with a mechanic and the seller wouldn't let us give it a going over then it'd probably ring bells. Maybe the seller knew or didn't know about these issues but worrying about it won't really get you anywhere. Private sale is sold as seen and you'd have a hard time proving anything otherwise to make it worth a damn.

 

My current 205, also in white (best colour) has no history before 2012, the engine and gearbox are not original, the mileage says 120k-odd but frankly it could be bloody anything. But I don't care, because it drives very well and i'm enjoying the s*it out of it. Just like you should when you get yours fixed. If the 205 is for you and you get the bug, you won't ever sell it on anyway!!

[daveb-uk 1]

Honestly mate just put it down to a learning experience. If I went to see a car with a mechanic and the seller wouldn't let us give it a going over then it'd probably ring bells. Maybe the seller knew or didn't know about these issues but worrying about it won't really get you anywhere. Private sale is sold as seen and you'd have a hard time proving anything otherwise to make it worth a damn.

 

My current 205, also in white (best colour) has no history before 2012, the engine and gearbox are not original, the mileage says 120k-odd but frankly it could be bloody anything. But I don't care, because it drives very well and i'm enjoying the s*it out of it. Just like you should when you get yours fixed. If the 205 is for you and you get the bug, you won't ever sell it on anyway!!

Thanks man, well said. I really cannot wait to get it back, and to show it looking like it should

[large 33]

 

I am quoting directly what the garage said, I honestly don't care whether you believe me or not. when I took it to them, I told them I thought the engine was moving about. this, they confirmed when I called back. specifically, the gearbox. The garage was 20Ten (they of the Clio Cup race team), the guy I bought it from mentioned in passing to be a personal friend of the owner.

Sorry Dave, that was me trying to be funny.

Don't take it or my other comment to hart I am an arse hole!

Stick with it and in a year or so I hope you can look back at this and laugh. It's not such a bad place just look out for GLP. He's a C**t. (Hi Steve XXX).

[eddie bullit 37]

It seems you've gone in to buying your pug a little naive. As said these were, on occasion, bought by knobs. Most may well have died by now. Seems you've got a car that needs work. They all do!!

History, loads of bills etc are brilliant but I always buy from the current seller not the first or second owner. Get it sorted and enjoy it. Fettle it as you go. If you want hassle free buy a new golf gti at £30k

Good luck

[daveb-uk 1]

Sorry Dave, that was me trying to be funny.

Don't take it or my other comment to hart I am an arse hole!

Stick with it and in a year or so I hope you can look back at this and laugh. It's not such a bad place just look out for GLP. He's a C**t. (Hi Steve XXX).

lol

[willis 18 1 Cars]

no one buys old french hatch backs to make money.

hhmmm, we'll see...

[willis 18 1 Cars]

Was the temperature guage not working? (you might have said but couldn't be arsed to read thread again!)

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Whats done is done, sounds like you're just in the blue about the history more than the problems with the car itself.

 

I put a lot of blood sweat an tears into my project and spent around 2k. If id have paid someone to carry out the work It would have cost me around 10k plus, for a car currently worth at most 4k.? (See my project in my sig).

For me I built the car to enjoy, not as an investment. If its the latter maybe a different choice of car would be more suitable.

If you bought it to enjoy then expect lots of work because its an old car. Expect more work cos its a cheap french car. Also expect to get ripped off again from overpriced parts. And expect those parts to snap and crumble as you fit them in place...again because Its a cheap french car.

[chipstick 382 1 Cars]

Find a new mechanic friend.

[dcc 855]

reading more in to this, it a g plate with phase 2 lights, ot sure about much else of the car, not noticed the car on here before.

 

since then, it seems a bit of a mix between a bodged up 205 and a somewhat unhealthy / timebomb of a thing.

 

if it were me being the seller I'd feel bad for the buyer, in fact by the sound of it I wouldn't have offered the car for sale in that condition as a fit for purpose vehicle.

 

now if it were me as a buyer i'd be feeling foolish for rushing in to the purchase.

 

I don't think I have ever paid more than £1000 for a 205, but I'd like to think that I now have a pretty damn good understanding of what is costly and timely, what is bodged and what is disguised and hidden from sight.

 

obviously when it comes down to it the buyer was happy to part with his money, he didn't take note of any severe issue which would have lit a warning bulb in his mind. the gearbox would have rendered the car almost undriveable, I have had a stud casting snap on me and me be able to drive 30 miles like that, but I 100% knew it was snapped while driving, not something which could be hidden.

 

regardless it seems he has had an expensive lesson which might have been avoided with a bit more honesty and clarity from the seller, accompanied by a bit of decent 205 mechanical knowledge prior to viewing.

 

 

 

Hold on there Dan . Am I reading this Different to you chap ?

Dave took a mechanic to buy a 205 gti . Who I'm presuming knows his job

so lets say this mechanic looked at the car for lets say till he was happy ( One hour +) . presume the mechanic took it for a test drive too

Dave looked at the history of the car which he states very little

Dave then purchases the car and it was fine for a bit then the head gasket went ( quite a well know problem with 205's )

Dave then researches the history and finds the mileage incorrect at a certain point in time ( being 3000) in 2012 that to me leads to believe some one reset the mileage for a reason ?

 

what did the mot check come up with before that ie 2008 dave?

 

The Mot was done but not by the seller .The engine is only held in at 3 places so i don't see how this could affect the head gasket issue

 

This all reads to me like maybe the buyer ( Dave) should have done a hpi check but he knew there was little history with the car

His mechanic was happy for him to buy the car ( even though he couldn't jack it up )

 

going forward sounds like you have got a good base for a car , not many cars are perfect and can break at any time .

[roland rat 11]

I'll give you 500 for it?

[steve@cornwall 100]

An unfortunate and understandably disappointing experience. I would not worry about the history aspect. At 3000 miles the data is obviously incorrectly entered, I would personally not trust the accuracy of dvla in any event. Further to this I have a cti on just over 90k recorded and documented. It came with a folder full from the new vehicle invoice to the year before I bought it, it also came to me needing a new roof, engine, gearbox, rear beam, wiring loom for engine and dashboard, full interior and had no wheels! Having been traded in and subsequently vandalised and an unsuccessful theft attempt.The parts fitted have mostly done considerably more mileage, but who`s to know?

 

I've also had occasions when newly fitted components have shaken loose after fitting (both my own work and professional) unfortunately it happens, annoying as it is. I once sold a car locally and the gearbox mount failed about 2 weeks after changing the engine and box. I felt awful, repaired the damage but the new owner accepted that these things happen with older cars.

Same really with the head gasket sh*t happens, especially with older cars.

 

It can be hard with a loved and shiny car to remember that these are old cars and no matter how cherished they are they are often still basically old bangers in shiny clothing, and the last to notice this are the doting owners.

 

Keep your chin up, remember that the forum is a place of great information, you won't always gel with everybody, but that's life too.

[GLPoomobile 958]

It's not such a bad place just look out for GLP. He's a C**t. (Hi Steve XXX).

Love you too. XXX

 

What would you do?

In short, suck it up and move on.

 

The reality of the situation seems to sit somewhere between a catalogue of errors and simple s*it luck (or a combination of both). The only single thing that seems obviously true is that you failed to exercise the appropriate checks that would have avoided this. It's harsh and blunt, but I'm not trying to be rude, just calling it as I see it. I think you realise this now too, which probably makes it an even more bitter pill to swallow.

 

Not being permitted to jack the car up would have set alarm bells ringing for me right away. What was the seller trying to hide? If a seller is wary and precious about a stranger jacking up their car, they could still agree to it on the grounds that they jack it themselves or closely supervise. That said, not being able to jack the car up should certainly not have prevented a competent mechanic being able to identify some of these issues IF they were present at the point of sale!

 

The stuff about the history seems very odd. Considering you seem to be quite hung up on it, why was it not a point of contention before the sale? Presumably you took the time to check all available paperwork and you were satisfied, in which case, why does this nonsense with the DVLA MOT history check bother you now? If the paper trail is non existent or questionable then you would still have been buying an old car with little paper history to provide some provenance anyway (which you've kind of implied is something you pace some value on). So the way I'm reading this is that you are now upset that the car may have a questionable history based on........well nothing solid really.

 

As far as the technical faults are concerned, unless you can solidly prove that the seller would have been aware of any of these or has deliberately mislead you, I'm not sure you really have any recourse. "Sold as seen" and "Buyer beware" etc. Perfectly reasonable that some of these failures could be just shear bad luck and bad timing and have genuinely arisen post-sale, because it's an old car. But the non working stop light and not being permitted to jack the car up are two things that paint a bad picture in my mind. What was the test drive like - did he let you drive, and did he restrict how far you took it and the type of driving allowed?

 

One last thing. Some of your comments come across as being a bit nippy towards the forum. I understand that you were pointed towards this car by a high standing member, but only you and he know what was discussed. To me it seems like all he did was point you in the direction of a 205 he knew to be for sale that fit your criteria, being sold by someone outside of this community. I understand you are miffed but unless there's more to the story, I don't see how he has any responsibility for what has happened and it does not reflect on the way the forum community conducts itself in general. Whether you were genuinely ripped off or not, you need to accept that the responsibility was ultimately upon you to check the condition, history and legality of the car and ensure you were happy before agreeing the sale.

 

and hey, it could have been worse! At least you didn't buy a cut and shut like one poor forum member did within the last 2 years!

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

 

I still bought a car from someone personally recommended on this forum by a senior member,

If this is aimed at me then I don't feel it is quite accurate.

 

In your post looking for a car, what I actually said was-

 

"I know of one that might be for sale soon. I will let the guy who owns it know."

 

No more, no less.

[Batfink 201]

So whats wrong with the chassis or is the jacking up issue irrelevant? Did you test drive the car? Personally I've always tried to buy 205's with good bodywork and paperwork. Mechanical issues always arise on an old car but they are generally the simpler issues to fix, although still a pain in the arse.

The problem now is even s*it cars are fetching good money so its ever more important to go with a list of issues to specifically check, and if you have a doubt walk away. There will always be another.

Could be worse though, I've bought a car from Japan for a lot more money with only a couple of pictures and a sales ad in japanese badly translated. I'll learn this week whether it was a good risk!

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

Have you looked into the MOT mileage issue? i've seen it before, even done it myself a couple times, missed a digit off the end or entered in a wrong digit, but usually one would ring up VOSA help disk straight away to get it changed, easy mistake!

Maybe someone had entered it in wrong and not realised, its easier now to spot as the last two MOTs are on the certificate,

 

I don't understand the point dcc has made about never buying a 205 over £1000, maybe a few years ago as i paid £900 for mine, even though i knew the condition it was in (pretty poor) you'd be lucky to get a gti now for under £2k,

 

I wouldn't expect a good condition one for £1600 and with any car it could be fine and the seller may assume the car is in perfect working order, you could drive it home and it over heat on you, may or may not be the sellers fault, its a mechanical item at the end of the day.

 

As for the jacking up, i don't think i would be happy someone sticking an old jack under my sills either, the state some cheaper jacks leave seals in anyway!