Ripped Off

[daveb-uk 1]

I came on this forum looking for a car a couple of months back and was delighted to get a recommendation

 

The car's off the road at present undergoing a major overhaul after it proved not to be roadworthy in spite of having a valid mot (it was sold by someone who says they are authorised to to mot even tho they say they did not issue it)

 

I was directed to a new tool provided by dvla today in which you can check mot history

 

Fascinating to note that in 2012 and 2013 the documented mileage for a 23 year old car is less than 3000 miles. One year later it was 92k

 

What would you do?

Edited October 17, 2015 by daveb-uk

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

Ask for an explanation. It's possible that the clocks were changed on it and this wasn't boted at MOT. I had a sinilar issue at my last MOT as my odometer has been inaccurate and skipping all over the place.

 

Send him a PM and query that and any other issues. I'm sure he'd never mislead intentionally and would put things right.

[Bobbafett 49 2 Cars]

I remember your thread looking for a white one. Is this the one that was up for £1600? Why wasn't it roadworthy out of interest?

[Pugleyrich 37 1 Cars]

That's a shame, it looked really nice from the photos you posted. What exactly is the problem with it, other than the MOT milage history? As mentioned above, there are reasons as to why it may have changed. It is annoying to have that in the MOT history but not the end of the world when it comes to a car of this age. It is much more important to buy based on condition so it would be interesting to know what the damage is.

[large 33]

Also don't forget a mot is the minimum standard for a car to be on the road and is only valid for when the car is in the garage.

[speno 239 2 Cars]

What other mot's have you got with the car ? Its not too strange for clocks to jump about , i've seen it a few times . some times folk reset the clock when they put a new engine in

I don't see how you are ripped off ? surely you did a hpi first ? or took a good mechanic? or checked all the paperwork ?

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I think you were looking for Rust, Colour and Engine IIRC and you paid £1600 which is a good deal on a GTI which was on the road. As others have said, the clock issue is a minor thing as that often depends on the MOT station recording it correctly and also the DVLA data being 100% accurate (which unfortunatly it is sometimes not). What did it say on any paperwork which came with the car for any previous MOTs. If it didn't have these, then that would perhaps explain the cheap price as a full history bumps up the price to around £2.5k now.

 

The main thing is the rust and bodywork condition as the engines can easily be serviced by any local mechanic and parts are readily available. If it kangaroos about a bit, it doesn't mean it is an MOT failure, but it may make it a bit undrivable, however this is one of the "characteristics" of 205 ownership and can be one of many things from ignition amp, to air flow meter, to air leak, to supplementary air device, to wiring connectors, to dizzy to HT leads, to coil, to spark plugs!!!! (It is very rarely the ECU).

 

So don't give up on it. It sounds like you have a good project there and I think "Ripped Off" is a bit harsh, but if you wanted one to show standard out of the box, then your budget should have been at least trebled. You have to bear in mind that they are old cars at the end of the day and that is all part of the fun of being a classic car owner

 

There is a Peugeot Sport Club / 205 Drivers meet tomorrow night in Chesterfield, so why not get involved and learn more about these fun little cars: https://www.facebook.com/events/970130103049560/

[Anthony 1,003]

What's "unroadworthy" about the car? That's far more key here than any mileage discrepancy on the previous MOT's IMO.

 

Looking back at your previous threads, it looks like you had an misfire/hesitation issue at 3k rpm (that developed after buying the car), the cooling system needs an overhaul and the engine is smoky? Are they all the issues or is there more that you've not mentioned?

 

Unless the smoke was like something from a James Bond movie, none of that lot would have been an issue at MOT time so the MOT is quite possibly legit if there's no other major issues - even more so if the MOT was done some time before you collected the car.

 

Your threads also suggest that you're not the most mechanically minded chap - not an issue, but did you take someone who was to inspect the car? Most issues will make themselves known during an inspection and/or test drive in my experience.

 

I don't know the car or the seller so I can't comment on either, but what I do know is that these are ~25 year old cars that have all too often had a hard life and periods of neglect, and thus it's common to need work in order to bring them back up to scratch and it's imperative to give them a good check over to avoid a tired bag of nails as there's still quite a few of those out there (often with prices that don't reflect the condition)

 

Obviously the devil is in the detail though, and if the car was considerably mis-represented or sold with a bent MOT then that's another matter entirely.

[daveb-uk 1]

I paid considerably more than £1600.

 

It's off the road cos the cooling system collapsed - pissing coolant and the reservoir was full of exhaust fumes. May or may not have been caused by the engine being so poorly fitted I could literally feel the weight shifting on the front end

 

This is a car I'm supposed to believe passed an MOT with no advisories

 

I took a very good mechanic who was not pleased at not being allowed to jack it up

 

I'm placated only with the knowledge that as far as I can tell the important bits are sound and the engine pulled beautifully on the few days it ran without a problem before I SORNed it

 

However I hoped one day to recoup the extra money I am spending making it beautiful but unfortunately no amount of money will change the history

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

25 year old car.

Many of the issues above are not covered by the MOT.

Spend a bit of time fettling and it will work out.

[daveb-uk 1]

I absolutely expected to spend money on it. But now I have absolutely no idea what it's actual mileage is. The 'history' makes scary reading - hard to tell at times if it refers to this car or another

 

I was lazy I guess because I was too ready to listen to all the talk of being known around the scene and not selling rubbish. So mainly posting as a lesson to others.

[Anthony 1,003]

Sounds like the head gasket has failed then - unlucky, but not an unknown issue on XU's by any means. Hard to say if the seller knew about it or not, as they'll often run very well (as you said yours did) with HG failure until the excessive pressurised cooling eventually fails at the weakest spot, which is what it sounds like yours has done.

 

If the seller wasn't willing to allow the car to be jacked up I would ask myself why - are they trying to hide something? If I was selling I might have insisted that I jacked the car up myself (as I've seen countless cars damaged by people jacking them up in the wrong place) but I would have been happy for someone to check underneath it had they asked to.

 

Out of interest, did you read through the history prior to buying? A quick glance at the MOT certificate would have shown the mileage discrepancy for example.

 

It's a shame that your ownership has been soured somewhat at this early stage, but if the car is otherwise good in all the important places then hopefully it should prove rewarding once it's all sorted. As for the money, you never really recoup what you spend on cars, but at least good examples of 205's are noticeably appreciating in value so you shouldn't lose out as much as you might with a newer car that suffered similar issues.

[daveb-uk 1]

I don't know whether he knew, but when I bought it three of the dash bulbs were not working, including the STOP light which went on as soon as it was fixed

[dcc 855]

Who did you buy from then?? Name and shame

[allye 530 3 Cars]

no one buys old french hatch backs to make money.

[daveb-uk 1]

I didn't say make money, I said get back what I'm spending, which is unlikely with a car that has such a chequered history.

[speno 239 2 Cars]

Who did you buy from then?? Name and shame

Hold on there Dan . Am I reading this Different to you chap ?

Dave took a mechanic to buy a 205 gti . Who I'm presuming knows his job

so lets say this mechanic looked at the car for lets say till he was happy ( One hour +) . presume the mechanic took it for a test drive too

Dave looked at the history of the car which he states very little

Dave then purchases the car and it was fine for a bit then the head gasket went ( quite a well know problem with 205's )

Dave then researches the history and finds the mileage incorrect at a certain point in time ( being 3000) in 2012 that to me leads to believe some one reset the mileage for a reason ?

 

what did the mot check come up with before that ie 2008 dave?

 

The Mot was done but not by the seller .The engine is only held in at 3 places so i don't see how this could affect the head gasket issue

 

This all reads to me like maybe the buyer ( Dave) should have done a hpi check but he knew there was little history with the car

His mechanic was happy for him to buy the car ( even though he couldn't jack it up )

 

going forward sounds like you have got a good base for a car , not many cars are perfect and can break at any time .

[welshpug 1,657]

no one buys old french hatch backs to make money.

 

funniest post of thread

[Bobbafett 49 2 Cars]

If you or your mechanic weren't happy on viewing and test-drive you shouldn't have bought the car. Especially if it was top money. Many (most?) of these cars have a chequered and unclear history and I think you can only do your best when buying one to hope it's a good one and not too much has been bodged in the past.

 

To be honest it's a good introduction to 205 ownership. These cars break A LOT and if you're going to use and enjoy the car a lot (which should be the primary reason for owning one) then you're unlikely to 'get your money back'. It's a lot more likely you'll spend a s*itload of money on it and then if you sell it you'll take a big hit. But they're worth it for the sheer enjoyment of driving the bloody things.

 

EDIT: How much did you pay for it by the way??

Edited October 18, 2015 by Bobbafett

[hcmini1989 16]

All the repairs you have described wouldn't really cost a lot to put right 300-400 pound at the most .And as e above they are to be expected most people on here would be tackling these repairs them selves even if you don't know how there are plenty of guides on here to fix everything so why not have ago your self .All so don't get hung up on service history mileage etc chances are if you bought it off another forum member they will have done repairs on it them selves servicing etc so might not have a perfect service history I do all my own but never bother keeping a record and if you think these are bad try getting an old mini with decent history your lucky if the logbook matches the car ..Only time I would be worried is if it would have been in a bad accident but from what you have told us its all mechanical stuff that's wrong and simple fixes .

 

EDIT : Suck it up ,Get it fixed ,and enjoy driving it .It cant be that bad or you wouldn't have bought it .

Edited October 18, 2015 by hcmini1989

[TAG 25 1 Cars]

I think with the nature and age of these cars, you're bound to find bodges from previous owners here and there.

[daveb-uk 1]

Hold on there Dan . Am I reading this Different to you chap ?

Dave took a mechanic to buy a 205 gti . Who I'm presuming knows his job

so lets say this mechanic looked at the car for lets say till he was happy ( One hour +) . presume the mechanic took it for a test drive too

Dave looked at the history of the car which he states very little

Dave then purchases the car and it was fine for a bit then the head gasket went ( quite a well know problem with 205's )

Dave then researches the history and finds the mileage incorrect at a certain point in time ( being 3000) in 2012 that to me leads to believe some one reset the mileage for a reason ?

 

what did the mot check come up with before that ie 2008 dave?

 

The Mot was done but not by the seller .The engine is only held in at 3 places so i don't see how this could affect the head gasket issue

 

This all reads to me like maybe the buyer ( Dave) should have done a hpi check but he knew there was little history with the car

His mechanic was happy for him to buy the car ( even though he couldn't jack it up )

 

going forward sounds like you have got a good base for a car , not many cars are perfect and can break at any time .

Mot record shows nothing before that point

 

As for "was fine for a bit", as I pointed out above the dashboard electrics weren't working when I bought it, three days after I did the central steering column was smoking so it went to an electrician, hey presto stop light

[daveb-uk 1]

I think with the nature and age of these cars, you're bound to find bodges from previous owners here and there.

Forum member I bought it from admitted installing the engine, a week later had a £200 garage bill for doing the job properly (prior to the extent of the cooling issues coming to light)

 

But hey, if this is all just normal behaviour on here then thanks, I am duly warned

[Matt Holley 11]

What was the actual problem with the engine installation?

[daveb-uk 1]

What was the actual problem with the engine installation?

According to the garage, there was nothing holding the gearbox in place.