Xu10J4R (Xsi) Conversion Questions

[steve@cornwall 100]

It's finally time to go,16v. I have bought a cheap and nasty (bodily) 306 cabrio which is mechanically good, had a recent change in meds so my hands and arms work to the point I can wield spanners again and am ready to get stuck in!

 

I'll be transplanting into my cti which has been garaged for a couple of years and the goal is really just to get it in and running as an excersise in itself, because I've always wanted to do a 16v.

 

Spent some time online researching and have a few questions for you more experienced chaps.

 

1. Wiring wise it's as the gti-6 ? So I can use the pinned guide? (Which looks brilliant btw)

2. As I'll not be using air con or pas ,can I use the XU9 mi16 alternator brackets and engine mounts?

3. Also the inlet from above and possibly exhaust manifold?

4. Any information on unlocking the ecu would be appreciated.

5. Has anyone transplanted the 306 dash also? Just a silly idea in my head!

 

Should be fun.

[welshpug 1,666]

1, in essence yes, may be variations in pin location and colours, all functions will be same numbers.

 

2, no, only iron block stuff fits.

 

3, not sure what you are asking?

 

4, ignition on, unplug ecu.

 

5, too wide, ducting also moulded into it, makes up top half of heater box also.

[jackherer 543]

3. Also the inlet from above and possibly exhaust manifold?

 

You can fit the GTI6 exhaust manifold to the XU10J4R and possibly the inlet manifold too. Both would need some messing about to make them fit into a 205 as per the GTI6 engine.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Was looking at this old threadhttp://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=151358&hl=%2Bxu10jr+%2Bconversion lO

Edited October 10, 2015 by steve@cornwall

[petert 600]

Std inlet and exhaust fits in perfectly, without any modifications. It's one of the easiest conversions you can do.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Thanks guys. Nice and easy on the ecu, can use the wiring guide but double check continuity of each wire and leave the manifolds and alternator brackets as is then.

[steve@cornwall 100]

I'm just now removing the engine from the donor cabriolet. Took a while to figure out where the loom enters the car! Seems removing the dash was a waste of time,eh?

Getting to the downpipe bolts is worse than on a 205, which I thought were worst ever.

Next problem I see is the alternator. I won't be using the air con or power steering so can't see a way of tensioning the belt?

I assume I can use the 205 crank pulley?

Are all of the gearboxes from this engine equipped with electronic Speedos or is there an easy way of converting?

Most likely all beginners questions as this is my first effort at conversion. All help gratefully received

[Anthony 1,003]

Can you not do something similar to GTi-6 conversions for the alternator belt, using an old eccentric cambelt tensioner? You'll need to retain the J4R crank pulley.

 

Use a hybrid speedo drive from an early 306 if you need a VSS for the management and a cable for the 205 speedo - pattern ones are available on eBay cheap as chips.

[steve@cornwall 100]

I've done a search but can't find info on what others have done.

Great news on the Speedo though, thanks .I'll have a search through ebay

[steve@cornwall 100]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-CLIO-ESPACE-LAGUNA-PEUGEOT-106-206-306-406-BOXER-GEARBOX-SPEEDO-SENSOR-/221337702899?hash=item3388c151f3:m:m6w5pmCLn5GFh1TqtdZWULQ

 

As simple as this? Wow

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

That's the one, have fun doing the conversion, I really enjoyed doing mine, looking to the next one now the 309 has gone.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Any plans for the next one?

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Not to sure, it's still running sweet at the minuite so just keep driving, but if a nice GTI6 turned up plans WOULD change.

[petert 600]

Cut 90% of the pas mount away, leaving only the bottom section which mounts to the block and holds the alternator. Either fabricate something like attached for the top, or preferably, use LH and RH 5/16" UNF rose joints in a length of 12mm aluminium rod, to create a turnbuckle.

 

I suppose you could use an 8V pulley, but you're better off buying a new solid pulley. The belt only needs to be 4PK x 690ish from memory.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Thank you all for sharing, going to make this so much easier.

Pete, that looks nice and neat.

[welshpug 1,666]

that's an early non ac bracket, might not be what you have on yours so the alternator lugs could be different.

[Anthony 1,003]

Indeed. The J4R's with AC use the same bracket as GTi-6's as far as I know, in which case this is what I was referring to above (shamelessly stolen image):

 

 

That's the standard pulley and alternator with a 6PK700 belt and an eccentric type cambelt tensioner and post in one of the unused M8 threaded holes.

[petert 600]

that's an early non ac bracket, might not be what you have on yours so the alternator lugs could be different.

 

Not sure what you mean by that. What I mean is to cut the bracket off on the red line as shown and fabricate something to make it adjustable. Every XU10 block has an M8 lug in the same place. Mine looks a bit dodgy at present, with a stack of washers acting as a spacer, as the bolt snapped on the weekend.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Seeing as I now have the cti at home with an empty engine bay (for which the gti is grateful....) it may be time to get on with this!

 

I think I have a plan for the alternator adjuster and enough pieces of exhausts to make a system, but am stuck on wether to use the 306 gearbox which seems to throw up its own problems with linkage and clutch actuation or using the 205 'box.

 

Simplest solution seems to be to use the 205 box with 1.9 mi clutch. Does this clutch fit straight to the 306 flywheel or does it require the mi flywheel too? (I don't have the mi flywheel)

[welshpug 1,666]

the j4r flywheel is the same as the mi and gti6, so clutch will fit fine.

 

306 box into 205 is straightforward, swap top selector arm for flat 205 type, swap clutch fork and arm for push type.

fit small planet gear type diff, 205 has this.

Edited September 22, 2016 by welshpug

[steve@cornwall 100]

Thanks, Mei

 

So for option of using 306 box, i'd use selector arm,diff, clutch fork and arm from 205 box along with original 306 clutch? (Less expense is always good )

[welshpug 1,666]

not the 306 clutch, as its a pull type.

 

if you need a 215mm push clutch look them up on ebay, you'll often find o.e.m on there cheap.

[steve@cornwall 100]

Still thinking around this.....anything to prevent just using the 306box with 205 diff (assume that is needed to fit 205 shafts?) And adapting either the 205 clutch cable to reach the standard 306 clutch set up or adapting the 205 pedal to fit the 306 cable? Maybe just adding a ball connection to the 205 pedal?

[calvinhorse 870]

I've used a 306 s16 gearbox which is the same push type, worked fine with the standard pedal and a phase 1 gti clutch cable, I think I made a big spacer to take up the extra cable

[steve@cornwall 100]

My solution to the alternator adjustment.

 

 

Chopped off all the power steering pump mounts from the behemoth mounting. Retained the bottom alternator mounting allowing the alternator to swing outward from the top. Drilled and cut the 8v adjuster to fit to the top alternator mount, the cut end has been trimmed to fit the casting and keep it in place (no pivoting). Cut down the original top bolt to fit, waste not want not....lol

Trimmed the end of the alternator mounting by the width of the new bracket to keep it all in line.

All I need now is to measure the belt length and source a belt and put a longer bolt through the threaded part of the adjuster and the alternator top mount. Needed to grind away some of the "fins" on alternator casing to clear the bracket.

To me it seems a similar arrangement to the 8v, but pivoting from the bottom rather than the top. Anyone foresee any problems with this method? Seems simple and very cheap!

Edited September 28, 2016 by steve@cornwall