Advise On Either Carbs Or Throttle Bodies On My Mi16 Track Car

[m_john_m 4]

Hi all,

 

I posted a status on PEG on facebook last night about throttle bodies or carbs on my MI track car.

 

I just wanted to gauge some interest on what people would recomend.

 

I was speaking to someone who was very helpful on the set up he currently has - GSXR1000 bodies. Someone did say this was not the way to go as it is unreliable so to go with jenveys.

 

From what i have read they are a simple bit of kit and it is more the mapping that is unreliable.

 

Can anyone on here shed any light on this? Whats the reason for Jenveys being better? are they worth the extra money?

 

i will be buying second hand whatever it is (jenvey / GSXR).

 

Has anyone got any for sale?

 

I am not the most mechanically minded person so you may have to bare with me

[dcc 855]

Gsxr's sold in their 10000's, well manufactured by scale.

 

reliability is down to how you build the thing. Do it cheap, do it twice.

 

Biggest factor is budget vs your ability to fabricate, your attention to detail, quality of workmanship, then wiring, then ecu, then mapper.

 

Whats spec of car? What are you chasing?

 

Spend the next umpteen days researchig before you make an uneducated decision based on opinion of internet heros.

[welshpug 1,657]

yep, that!

 

one of the main brands used on bikes IIRC are a Honda subsidiary, they will be o.e.m quality unlike stuff like Jenvey, and far superior to a set of carbs IF bolted together properly (no crappy silicone hoses!)

 

one other problem many encounter with t-b setubs, is they fiddle! once mapped you shouldn't touch any of the throttle settings, unless of course you are a mapper, get it all right before going mapping and it WILL be reliable.

Mapping can only be unreliable if stuff is fiddled with or you use old worn parts, or substandard wiring, ecu systems etc, where the signals the ecu is using are not consistent.

Only reason I have Jenveys on a satchell inlet is that they don't tend to do XU setups now, but their XU-DCOE arrangements with the Jenvey bodies can produce comparable results, some of their most reliable engines have used the bike bodies.


I recall a mapping session my friend DCC had with sandy using a set of used Jenveys, the first half of the day was spent trying to balance the bodies, ended up being a bent throttle spindle and non centered throttle butterflies, so the GSXR argument over Jenveys I don't think is true at all.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Jenveys are fit and forget, you can get all the correct parts off the shelf specifically for your application, an mi16, not a motorbike. There has also been a lot of money spent in the development of these products for this application, combine that with emerald/omex/dta etc and a good mapper and it's hard to beat. By the time you've produced a good quality inlet, What's your tract length going to be? got around all the other obstacles associated with modifying something to fit and work correctly on a different application, your best off just spending the cash on

Jenveys in the first place.

[welshpug 1,657]

GSXR are fit and forget.

 

I doubt an mi16 tps will fit jenveys.

 

only ONE part on the gsxr setup you would ever need to get from a non car supplier, which is a tps.

[dcc 855]

Thats horrible advice... Look at how successful Justin Bucks mi16 has been! A few hours / nights spent researching your your engine and anticipated results will pay dividends far beyond 'just fitting jenveys'

 

If anything you see more issues with jenveys and theyr tps, spindle wear, butterflys twisting...

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

All valid Dan, but by the first post, "I am not the most mechanically minded person" that says to me loud and clear that a bolt on solution is best for this guy.

 

If he was a keen fabricator or knew someone that was, fair enough, but clearly he isn't, so the Jenveys are the easy bolt on solution.

 

I have/had GSXR bodies on my Mi16, they are only as good as the effort put in to the conversion, mine were faultless until my mate smashed them to bits on a concrete wall at Donington Park.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

As mentioned he has limited mechanical knowledge so surely Jenveys, being a bolt on solution, is the way forward. Maybe i've been lucky but i've fitted many sets of jenveys without issues. Not sure how that's horrible advice. Yes, I'm sure bike bodies can be just as effective if you have the time knowledge and patience, but that doesn't sound like the best option in this case.

[welshpug 1,657]

jenveys are far from "bolt on" in my experience, with limited knowledge I'd recommend getting someone well recommended to do the installation for you.

[m_john_m 4]

Thanks for all the advise.

 

Yeah I would get my mate who is a mechanic to help..... Fit them haha

 

Is there much fabriction involved?i have seen that people cut the old MI manifold but I would probably buy one prefabbed.

 

What do a second hand set of jenveys go for?

 

My MI is currently running on 8v management, It runs fine but want a bit more power. I was tempted by carbs or bodies or I could put it on 16v management.

 

I just want it ready for next year to do some track days. Any advise is welcome on either of the roots. It won't be until after Xmas that I probably start doing engine work. I'm starting early trying to research into the best method and gauge interest.

 

I don't fancy forking out 1500 for a set of jenveys lol I paid that for the car haha! But if I have to then so be it!

[boldy205 75]

I think you will knock a big hole in £1.5k by the time you fit and set up jenveys, cars or bike bodies to be honest. Maybe your cheapest route would be to fit it all up on std injection for a 'bolt on' setup?

Just a thought.

[woodymi16 24 2 Cars]

Full kit from Omex £1872

 

http://omextechnology.co.uk/Omex%20Mi16%20TB%20Kit%20v4_00.pdf

 

Labour depends on how much you do yourself, mapping probably around £300.

 

Maybe getting the best out of what you already have would suit your budget, not forgetting you will need brakes and suspension to match.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Jenveys are very bolt on.

Yes they can be fiddly but there really isn't any engineering required.

Read my build thread.

[m_john_m 4]

thanks for all the advise! it really is helpful!

 

That omex kit looks good! i dont mind spending as long as it is getting done properly. my only problem with going for cheaper bike bodies is that i would probably mess it up lol.....

 

Hence why im toying with the fact of getting a kit. it just daunts me that i would be spending more on this than what the car cost me originally..... plus mapping

 

i would like to fit it myself as it would be a steep learning curve! if i had guidance from my mate. i was speaking to him last night and he said he would help me! hes worked on a 205 track car before with bodies but he didnt fit them. he said it should be easy enough.

 

Its already been lowered but think im going to change the suspension to coilovers.

 

iv got till the end of feb to get it done as i want to do a few track days next year so still got 4/5 months to get it done.

 

I have already started stripping it to respray it yellow

[welshpug 1,657]

I've put throttle bodies on a £259 car

[m_john_m 4]

haha thats epic!

 

are they worth the money?

 

or for what i will be using the car for is it best sticking to 16V management?

 

they look and sound soooooo good though

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

You would see a significant gain in driveability and probably a few more horses just getting rid of the 8v management and fitting the 16v management. That might be the best option, then if you grow out of that, then think about bodies. Jenveys is the by far the easiest option, not sure what others are banging on about to be honest. If you take your car anywhere to get bodies fitted, 9/10 they will offer you jenveys, and for a good reason.

 

However, a standard mi16 is still a formidable weapon on track, there aren't that many people that can say they can drive it to 100% of its capability. Things like heel and toe left foot braking and driver tuition etc will probably see the best increases in track speed if that's what your after. Not to mention the spec of the rest of the car, lsd? brakes, suspension setup etc.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

 

they look and sound soooooo good though

Unfortunately due to the sausage filter you don't get to see them that often. However you can be heard on WOT about 3 miles away (apparently....!)

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

jenveys are far from "bolt on" in my experience, with limited knowledge I'd recommend getting someone well recommended to do the installation for you.

 

Haha the amount of trouble i've had getting mine to fit! seals supplied not sealing well, and issues with the levers witch to be fair i think i still will have when it comes to ballancing

[welshpug 1,657]

my list goes as such;

 

new parts

 

Jenvey THP45i (91mm) PQ2 lever, £435. (no need for ridiculously expensive throttle linkages, just a simple DIY cable stop bracket)

Jenvey 45x90mm trumpets, £28 each.
Satchell inlet manifold £180.

TBR22 fuel rail £66 (with hindsight I would have bought TBR32 straight away, this is the -6 variant)

CP17 TPS, £58.

Plug leads £18.

Parts to make loom, £60.

 

Used parts.

Clio 182 injectors £100 (got a set cleaned)

ITG JC50/125 filter £25.

ECU, DTA S40 £400.

 

 

Total, £1454.

 

Parts used from original engine.

FPR

Fuel rail

Injectors

Coolant sender

IAT sender

throttle cable.

 

 

Other used parts from stock or donated.

 

8v XU coilpack

Filter backplate.

90 degree v-brake noodle.

Parts of old BX motronic loom.

 

Also in preparation for mapping (£300)

 

Oil & filter, plugs, £40.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'd ask who ever is mapping it first before buying anything, I know quite a few mapper's inc mine don;t touch DIY install's for problems that can arise from it, I know it's the last thing you want as it add's allot of time and hassle which you don;t need or have the time for.

 

Injectors I'd buy new know, the 306 or 205 ones are all old now

[Alastairh 47]

Stick it on proper 16v management, save your self some cash until you are ready to upgrade the rest of the engine to get the most out of the bodies.

 

You haven't experienced the true magic yet with that dizzy still fitted.

 

Al

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I agree with what others have said here. Junk the 8v dizzy and get it running on proper 16v management.

Spend the dosh on a limited slip diff.

[m_john_m 4]

thanks for all your imput!!!

 

it really is helpful for the future build of the car!

 

What is the difference in cost between carbs and bodies then?

 

i know either way i would have to get it set up on a rolling road.

 

If carbs is still quite expensive i think i will just go with 16v management and get my uncle to wire it in for me.

 

I think 306 GTI injectors are a must from what i have been told.

 

the car is currently 90% stripped of trim and almost ready to be prepped for painting. i will create a build thread one of these nights to get advise as i am going along.

 

are there any other recommended mods? i did order a 306 GTI sump but its not been fitted, going to order a sump baffle and fit that with the 306 oil pump.

 

I would like a dif! i noticed when i took the car on the 3 sisters in wigan (small track i know) it would spin under load on a corner when i wasnt going very fast! but it was in second gear so its expected really......

[dcc 855]

Youre looking at 800-1000 on carbs, 1600-2000 on bodies, gti6 sump on an alloy bottom end doesnt really work. You lose the stiffener plate. Its there for a reason. I'd be spending monays on a diff first!