Ph2 Xsara Donor - Urinating In The Wind?

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

I've currently got a 1.6 '92 gti that's not in bad nick but the engine is quite tired plus if like a little more go and I've got 2 options on the table right now.

The first is a very cheap recently rebuilt (and never run) 1.9 bare - was built for a friend who hill climbs but he's just swapped to a clip cup. He's got a pair of 40's for it (not sure they are big enough)

 

Or the other option I've got is a xsara vts but it's a ph2. I've tied myself up in knots with all the info around but the jist that I get is that the wiring ranges from difficult to impossible due to multiplex etc. I'm pretty spanner handy and I build control panels and instrumentation for a job so the wiring doesn't scare me so much but when I read 'impossible' it does make me concerned. In an ideal world if get a ph1 and walk it but that's not realistic. The ph2 is a whole car so I could take whatever was needed.

 

So, apologies if this have been covered before but as I say I've probably read too much and can't seem to pin it down if it's possible and/or worthwhile.

 

My preference would be to do the 16v thing

[Tom Fenton 1,547]

Use the engine etc from the Xsara, but get hold of a ph 1 Xsara or 306 GTI6 engine loom, ECU and all sensors, and retrofit to your engine. The engine is the same its just the management that's different and multiplex.

[Tom Fenton 1,547]

Lots of other useful bits can come from the Xsara donor too. Quicker rack, front brakes, gearbox, and the rear arms/brakes and anti roll bar from the rear axle can also be used.

[welshpug 1,666]

using the phase 2 wiring is possible, but information on it is quite scarce so as Tom said getting the non multiplex stuff from a phase1 or a 306 is easier.

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I'd not realised that the engine itself was the same so that's good news.

 

Would you have a ballpark idea of how much extra I should budget for loom/ecu/sensors on top?

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

Been trawling eBay and old for sale ads and it doesn't seem like a loom etc would be too expensive.

 

Should I be concerned about a locked ecu? Is it possible to unlock them once they are out of the car?

[Stu 18]

This is the way i'd go too, i think you need to change a sensor on the stat housing to suit the earlier loom but other than that its a drop in conversion.

 

As for the ECU there are a few people that can 'hard' unlock them, the 'soft' option is done from the donor car while you have the keys etc.

 

Incidentally, if you do buy the complete car, i could use a P2 power steering pipe ;-)

[Alastairh 47]

This should get you started.

 

Top engine mount arm on the Phase 2 Vts is incorrect, you need a gti6 one, available off eBay for £10-15

Knock sensor, 2 to 3 pin, again, £10-15

Phase 2 injectors and fuel pressure regulator are also different, swap to GTI6.

Engine loom, GTI6 / Phase 1 VTS with a single plug.

Ecu as above, these can be soft locked in the donor car, but aren't 100% reliable. £60ish to be unlocked.

Map sensor connection maybe different during different eras. Keep existing plug off donor Phase 2 loom.

Exhaust manifold flange is different on Phase 2, as compared to GTI6, Phase 1 VTS and 205. Different down pipe, or manifold.

 

Coolant and oil pressure sensors, just use 205 sensors. Replace the Ecu temp sensor (£10). Keep existing Xsara oil temp sensor in the sump as this is a different thread size as compared to 205 sensors.

 

You also need to think about what gearbox and clutch combinations you want. It's all simple stuff, but buying a phase 2 VTS is a good option, you can buy them cheap and normally come with lower mileage compared to 306 GTI's and less thrashed.

 

Al

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

That's a fantastic list thanks I wasn't aware of the different injectors etc.

 

As far as the box goes I was going to use the xsara box after swapping the diff out. Is that still viable with a ph2?

[welshpug 1,666]

yes, its the same box, though there are some brackets that need removing, and swapping the top arm same as a phase1 plus the usual clutch part swaps.

[johniban 59 1 Cars]

Same boat as i was, fitted an xsara vts engine, unsure what phase it was from but i fitted throttle bodies and an omex loom rather than gathering other looms ect

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

Lots of other useful bits can come from the Xsara donor too. Quicker rack, front brakes, gearbox, and the rear arms/brakes and anti roll bar from the rear axle can also be used.

 

Tom, I missed this if I'm honest.

 

Considering I have a 1.6 with original beam can I still use the rear arms etc on it? I've had a wee search to no avail.

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

This should get you started.

 

Top engine mount arm on the Phase 2 Vts is incorrect, you need a gti6 one, available off eBay for £10-15

Knock sensor, 2 to 3 pin, again, £10-15

Phase 2 injectors and fuel pressure regulator are also different, swap to GTI6.

Engine loom, GTI6 / Phase 1 VTS with a single plug.

Ecu as above, these can be soft locked in the donor car, but aren't 100% reliable. £60ish to be unlocked.

Map sensor connection maybe different during different eras. Keep existing plug off donor Phase 2 loom.

Exhaust manifold flange is different on Phase 2, as compared to GTI6, Phase 1 VTS and 205. Different down pipe, or manifold.

 

Coolant and oil pressure sensors, just use 205 sensors. Replace the Ecu temp sensor (£10). Keep existing Xsara oil temp sensor in the sump as this is a different thread size as compared to 205 sensors.

 

You also need to think about what gearbox and clutch combinations you want. It's all simple stuff, but buying a phase 2 VTS is a good option, you can buy them cheap and normally come with lower mileage compared to 306 GTI's and less thrashed.

 

Al

 

Al

 

I'd intend to use the VTS box but from what I've read I'd need a different clutch and to use the release arm out of my 1.6 box?

[welshpug 1,666]

that would be the easiest way to get it to work with a std clutch cable.

[Spesh 31 1 Cars]

mi16 clutch I think?