Thoroughly Fed Up - Running And Idling Issues

[AndrewP 1 1 Cars]

Gents, I've resisted the urge to post up before now as I wanted to do as much as possible to learn and try to diagnose the issues with my car and I know the subject has been done to death. However, I'm now thoroughly fed up and would really appreciate some advice as to where I go from here. The car is a 1991 J plate non-cat Phase 2 1.9:

 

Symptoms

• Starts ok from cold, but dies unless revved. After a minute or so of revving, it will idle but around 2k rpm.
• Once the car has warmed up the idle dips down briefly to ~1200rpm before climbing to and remaining high at 2k rpm. The car does however run fine, pull well and it drives really nicely.
• MPG on a steady run is low (around 20mpg at a guess) and the car smells heavily of fuel/fumes at all times (it is non-cat).
• Fuel pump runs continuously once the key is turned (is this correct?).
• If the car stands in the garage for longer than a few hours, the fuel/oil smell on opening the door is very strong.
• There are no suspicious puddles under the car except for a tiny oil drip under the engine.

Things I've done/changed

 

New fully tested SAD

New ECU Coolant Sensor

New HT Leads

New Dizzy Cap and full H&H dizzy refurb.

New silicone breather and oil hoses with new jubilee clips

New inlet manifold gasket

New throttle body gasket

Stripped and Cleaned the throttle body and associated idle screw.

Confirmed the TPS is clicking off at idle.

 

Other issues possibly clouding the problem

 

I also have a starting issue sometimes (it just clicks) maybe this is 'brown multiplug' related however, could the tachometric relay be the root cause?

 

The best I can get the HOT idle to right now (by turning the idle screw on the throttle body) is 1550rpm. After that it just dies. I'm aware there may be more than one thing at fault here but I'm running out of things to think of to change and check.

 

Any advice at all is much appreciated

Edited August 29, 2015 by AndrewP

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

I'd check for air leaks if you haven't already, common one is the bolt missing that holds the oil filler to the inlet, but any split hoses, poorly sealed inlet etc will cause problems.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I think there are possibly a couple of issues here

 

First off I would check the inlet gaskets- are they the correct shape for the inlet manifold? You wouldn't be the first person to fit the carburettor inlet gasket, it fits but partly covers the injector sprays, the symptoms are remarkably as you describe e.g. Will not run at low revs, high fuel consumption.

After that I would check the air flow meter, on a previous 205 of mine it was dumping massive amounts of fuel in all the time. A replacement air flow meter sorted it.

[AndrewP 1 1 Cars]

Thanks for the fast replies

 

I'd check for air leaks if you haven't already, common one is the bolt missing that holds the oil filler to the inlet, but any split hoses, poorly sealed inlet etc will cause problems.

 

It's had new silicone breather hoses fitted and I've triple checked the jubilee clips are tight and sealing properly. Oil Filler Bolt is also present and tight.

 

I think there are possibly a couple of issues here

First off I would check the inlet gaskets- are they the correct shape for the inlet manifold? You wouldn't be the first person to fit the carburettor inlet gasket, it fits but partly covers the injector sprays, the symptoms are remarkably as you describe e.g. Will not run at low revs, high fuel consumption.
After that I would check the air flow meter, on a previous 205 of mine it was dumping massive amounts of fuel in all the time. A replacement air flow meter sorted it.

 

Tom, pretty sure it was the correct gasket, but happy to be told otherwise if I've been a muppet and put the wrong one in! Here's a picture:

 

 

I did also check the resistances of the AFM and retracked the wiper as it had worn grooves previously. However, I'll try and get hold of another as it could well be the issue.

 

 

Any ideas about the continuously running fuel pump, should it do that or just prime for a few seconds and switch off?

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

I'm fairly certain the pump runs continuously - when I had mine tuned recently the guy said the pump was on the way out which was causing a drop in power high end

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Just throwing out ideas - if it smells strongly of fuel in the garage then maybe you have a leak- it will evaporate fairly quick but the smell will build up - check your injectors, fuel lines , fuel filter etc etc

 

If its just a small leak you are unlikely to spot any puddles

Edited August 29, 2015 by Telf

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

your idling issue sounds like a air leak problem although I had similar issues and that was cured by replacing the dizzy my wouldn't idle properly unless it was at about 1300 rpm. The dizzy was completely shot- the internal springs had turned to iron filings- with a new dizzy it now idles nicely at 900 rpm.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Telf

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Has the vacuum take off hose perished?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The pump should never run all the time, relays sticking and they can stick on even with the ignition turned off. Has it got a different cam in it? as those ports look too clean for std

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

well I didn't know that - I thought the pump ran all the time - every days a school day

 

Cheers Miles

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

As said pump should only run for a short prime when you first switch the ignition on, then only with the engine running.

My money is on the air flow meter to be honest.

Is this Steve from Banbury old car? If so I'm sure he told me it had a different cam etc in. I'm wondering if someone has fitted a Superchip ECU, all these achieve in my experience is making the car massively over fuel which tallies with some of your symptoms eg. 20mpg.

[johnhenry 20]

I had massive problems with my AFM, it completely ruined the running of the car.

 

There is a test for them; http://www.205gtidrivers.com/articles.html/_/articles-guides/engine-related/205-gti-injection-basics-r34

 

check the tolerances states in that article, will confirm the AFM is knackered or not. Hope that helps.

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Other than the afm been worn, the spring tension messed with or the wiring faulty to ignition components, other issues could be wrong parts fitted to the car. Correct ecu? Dizzy? Injectors? Blue 1.6 yellow 1.9. AFM numbers correct to the engine? The fuel smell could be a missing anti vac valve on the tank breather. These often go missing. Has the head been skimmed? Did a thicker gasket get fitted? If not cam timing would be out. Other things you can carry out that id do. compression test. Injector cleaning. Buy a gas tester and timing light.