scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 I was aware of some rust coming through on the lower rear quarter which looks suspiciously like a previous poor repair has been done (see first photo). However, a couple of month ago I jacked up the rear using the jacking point and the sill literally crumbled and caved inwards (second photo). I've thought about the options that I have and wanted to see what people's opinions are on which would be easiest or cheapest while ensuring a proper job. 1) Have the affected area cut out and replacement fabricated and seam welded in. I've had a quote for this of £720 including VAT...this was by a well-known and highly recommended garage so I did expect it to be high, just not that high. I can obviously get it lower but it seems like more work than is necessary. 2) Buy a replacement sill and have the full existing sill removed and the whole new one put in. I understand this will involve removing spot welds and the front wing will need removing to get this done. This, to me, is more ideal and would be my choice to go ahead with if it wasn't for the front wing, which I don't think has ever been removed. 3) Buy a replacement sill and cut the portion to the rear that is needed off it and have that seam welded in to the old sill to avoid fabrication. Any other options? I thought it would be best to remove the whole rear end of the sill but it looks like the base is the only bit affected. Regardless of what is done, it'll need doing by someone else as I can't weld and don't have the equipment...happy to do any prep work to make it quicker/easier/cheaper though. The damage is an MOT failure but that isn't due until May. Thanks in advance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allye 530 3 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 I can't see any pictures? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 I can't see any pictures? They're definitely there at the bottom of the post...I'm seeing them fine. If they're still not showing it could be an issue with the server I used. Will see if others have the same issue and then try uploading again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,002 Posted August 21, 2015 I can see the pictures fine, but I can't add any words of wisdom with regards replacing a sill I'm afraid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 I can see the pictures fine, but I can't add any words of wisdom with regards replacing a sill I'm afraid. Thanks for confirming you can see the pics...not to worry about sill advice. Could I ask which you would go with if it were one of yours though? My issue with fabrication is the correct thickness of steel being used and the shape of the inner edge being correct, which I imagine would be hard to achieve. Plus I'm not overly keen on a seam weld, even when I won't see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fenton 1,536 Posted August 21, 2015 From that picture I think once you cut the sill off you'll find the inner sill and the section where it flares out near the tank are all rotten. We repaired this on allans road rally car a couple of years ago, it was odd as the sill was rotten for the entire back half, almost as if it had been full of wate as it was only the standard rubber stonechip really holding it together in places. However on the road rally car it was more a case of strong than pretty so instead of removing the wing instead I cut the sill near the front of the drivers door and seam welded it there. Around the door aperture is reasonably easy to weld with a spot welder. As per what I have said to other folk, find yourself a classic car restoration type place, they will be far less fazed by this kind of repair and will have the experience to likely do a much better job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 As per what I have said to other folk, find yourself a classic car restoration type place, they will be far less fazed by this kind of repair and will have the experience to likely do a much better job. That's what I did for that quote of £720. That was Stallion in Beeston, Nottingham. No doubt they can do a perfect job but the price will sting heavily. He reckoned the best course was to cut the affected areas out and fabricate from scratch. Regarding the inner sill, I was expecting that there may be an issue with that. Is there any way to investigate before the outer sill is removed? The rest of the sill does appear to be very solid. if the wind can come off easily I may go down the route of removing the whole sill (the wing has a small dent on the front edge and this could be taken out at the same time. Is the front wing sealed and bolted on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S@m 156 Posted August 21, 2015 I've got a very similar repair coming up on my GTI, hopefully it will be going in to a friends workshop to be repaired within the next month or two - luckily he's got experience restoring classics and does a very good job, i've been trying to get him to do it for over a year! I'll let you know how i get on with regards to the work involved and the overall cost, might be a little while yet though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miles 331 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 You can buy the sills still cheap too so I just cut out what I need and weld that in 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac Crash 78 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 Cut the rotten metal out and replace with new steel, any form of seam welding if done properly is far better than factory spot welding. Use the beam to jack the car, not the shell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fenton 1,536 Posted August 21, 2015 That's what I did for that quote of £720. That was Stallion in Beeston, Nottingham. No doubt they can do a perfect job but the price will sting heavily. What are you realistically expecting to pay? If that price includes paint after the repair then it sounds fair to me. 16hr @£30 plus £120 in paint materials sill etc +VAT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alastairh 47 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) That crumbled section does look a bit like there's more to it than just the outer sill. Price might be high, but that will be a tank off job etc. fair bit of work to get it perfect. Edited August 21, 2015 by Alastairh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) For some reason multi-quote isn't working... Colin: Unfortunately had no choice as it was roadside and could really get it at the beam...only had the standard jack too. Tom: Was hoping for £500 ish tops but really had no idea if I'm honest, just wanted to explore options first. Luckily I have time to get it done. Alastair: Poking about on it, it does seem to just be the outer sill at the bottom...not going to know until cutting it away obviously but the rest of the car is pretty solid. There has been a previous repair on the floor on the opposite side which is shameful. One step at a time though haha! Not going to start sorting it out until I have a second car to rely on. That's not going to be for a few months (probably end of the year as that seems to be when I always buy a car...no idea why). Reason is I'll be starting a new job in a couple of weeks and will depend on car usage. Sooo, gonna have to save up for a car, insurance and then the work on the 205 as you'd expect. I do have a mechanic literally on the other side of the fence where I've just moved to...will see how capable he is for the job. Even if he gets the welding done, I can then get the stonechip and paint done elsewhere. Might poke a hole through and see if it's rust underneath too. Edited August 21, 2015 by scbond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nixonmi16 5 Posted August 21, 2015 Hi I've just been repairing this area on mine 1 small hole near the tank on inner sill . Now upto 32 new sections around the car the rear part is made of outer sill,jacking point/reinforcement flat triangle section and then the closing panel by the tank. You will be amazed how sound a 205 looks untill you start to prod the seam sealant. It just depends how far you want to go mot standard ie no hole or full repair of chopping out all and rebuilding inner and outer sections. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 22, 2015 Hi I've just been repairing this area on mine 1 small hole near the tank on inner sill . Now upto 32 new sections around the car the rear part is made of outer sill,jacking point/reinforcement flat triangle section and then the closing panel by the tank. You will be amazed how sound a 205 looks untill you start to prod the seam sealant. It just depends how far you want to go mot standard ie no hole or full repair of chopping out all and rebuilding inner and outer sections. To be honest, if it needs doing further than the sill then I'll do it all. Really depends on how bad it is once I begin cutting. Still cannot decide which route in the first post is best though. If you or anyone else has pics of a shell without the sill on and the bits that go inside, such as the reinforcement, that'd be handy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erbs 42 1 Cars Posted August 22, 2015 having my cills replaced on my pug, rotten all the way through. luckily for me the inner cill is perfect so just replacing complete outer cills both sides Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slo 283 1 Cars Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Steve Kelly put this up on facebook two days ago, its the same area Edited August 22, 2015 by Slo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 22, 2015 Steve Kelly put this up on facebook two days ago, its the same area Cheers for that. Quick question...is the outer sill edge spot welded along the jacking point (along that full ridge)? Is that where it ends meets another part? I always thought it carried on all the way under to mee the floor if you get what I mean? So the cross section would be the top and round a full 270 degrees to the floor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 22, 2015 Think I've just managed to answer my own question...looks like the outer sill ends at the ridge where at the jacking points. If that's the case, is it the inner sill it meets? In my second pocture you can see the heavily dented part between the sill and tank...anywhere I can get a full replacement for that or will that need fabricating? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,002 Posted August 22, 2015 Inner sill needs fabricating as there's no replacement panels available as far as I know, just the outer sill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scbond 15 1 Cars Posted August 23, 2015 Inner sill needs fabricating as there's no replacement panels available as far as I know, just the outer sill. Aww...not what I wanted to hear May as well have it all fabricated where necessary then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
