What Dampers With Uprated Torsion Bars

[SweetBadger 94]

I paid £220 for a pair of 25mm bars very recently from the same company.

Edited August 12, 2015 by SweetBadger

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Anthony. 21mm's it is.

 

Yes, I'm sure it was £220 singular, that was why I phoned them again after someone told me they should be £300 max/pair, and they confirmed it again.

 

Thing is I was quoted £130 for an ARB a couple of weeks ago, which made me think a singular torsion bar would be similar price.

 

Could one of you guys with the native tongue give them a bell? 0116 271 0666

 

The first call I made the guy said someone was on holiday buy somebody else would call back, which they did..... so maybe a slim chance the guy has picked the wrong price.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I paid £220 for a pair of 25mm bars very recently from the same company.

 

You've got me thinking now..... but I definitely said "£220 each?"

[S@m 156]

I was a bit dubious of torsion performance because they weren't happy when i asked if their bars would match peugeot or PTS in terms of spring rate for the same diameter, citing that they couldn't give away inside information or possibly advise me, they would only say that everyone was always happy with their product...repeatedly.

 

I was quoted £220 the pair IIRC.

 

Also, having spoken to the owner of a company who uses their bars i was advised that due to the different material TP use its wise to use thicker bars from them than you would from PTS, he advised 23mm's where you'd use PTS 21mm's. Doesn't sound good to me but what i know about torsion bars can pretty much be written on a match.

Edited August 12, 2015 by S@m

[Anthony 1,002]

For what it's worth, I have done a direct comparison between PTS and TP 20mm TBs on two all but identical cars.

 

Both subjectively handled the same and felt as stiff, the car with the TP bars feeling if anything a touch stiffer due I suspect to having newer dampers. Both needed the same distance between shock centers within 1-2mm for a given ride height, a distance quite different to a standard 19mm bar.

 

To me that suggests they're broadly the same stiffness / spring rate to within a few percent, and certainly well under the difference between a 21 and 23mm bar (which is considerable!)

 

The only thing I was never entirely happy with on the TP bars was the inconsistent spline cutting, which was fine on some bars and quite loose/sloppy on others. The 309PUG bars are better in this regard from those I've seen/fitted, but they do cost considerably more.

[S@m 156]

I did send Chris (309PUG) a pm regading another run of bars since i'm happy with a couple of ARB's i got from him, i've not received any reply but he did state that he wouldn't be doing anymore in an old topic so i'm not holding out much hope.

 

I appreciate you sharing your experiences, Anthony. That's the most comprehensive "review" i've heard on TP bars so far, i was dubious of the advice i'd been given about going up 2mm, seemed drastic and put me off the product to be honest.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

A friend of mine is not convinced of the PT bars either at 21mm and that's with the Group N billies and previous to that the Koni's, I've always thought the same with the splines some are very slack and others OK but as they are machined on you cannot expect OE tolerances. Catch 22 I will only used customer supplied ones and not buy them as it's not worth the hassle

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

are Pug1off bars likely to be from PT?

 

If so what's my other options?

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

The only ones I'd pay full price for would be from Chris (309PUG)

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Tom, i don't think he's doing them now from his last post.

 

I know a guy who runs a machine shop, maybe speak to him and see if he would make me them on the fly. Spoox site says they are made of EN24T steel, which seems readily available.

 

Or try get some used ones.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

A friend of mine is not convinced of the PT bars either at 21mm and that's with the Group N billies and previous to that the Koni's, I've always thought the same with the splines some are very slack and others OK but as they are machined on you cannot expect OE tolerances. Catch 22 I will only used customer supplied ones and not buy them as it's not worth the hassle

How are original splines put on the bars miles?

Edited August 12, 2015 by allanallen

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Think they are done with a shaping machine Allan, there are videos on youtube.

 

Quite straight forward for someone who can write a CNC prog and can set the machine/job up.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I think the oe splines are rolled. But there's no reason why "machined" splines cannot be accurate.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I always thought, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broaching_(metalworking)

 

You'll find that everyone sells the PT bars with various descriptions and prices depending if they have been painted etc,

I have been looking for some used PTS bars for a couple of rallying customers and to date no luck

Edited August 12, 2015 by Miles

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

In my hunt for torsion bars I found this which maybe be helpful for someone

 

http://www.imaxle.co.uk/peugeot-205-rear-axle-centre-tube-with-bearings-oe-514844

[camgti 56]

Dont buy the cheap ones. There not heat treated and will sag over time. Unfortunatly the heat treating process is expensive and adds a lot to the cost.

 

You get what you pay for.

 

309pug heat treats his. As Tom says hes the only guy to buy from unless Peugeot Sport still sell them.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Think I've found a set/source, £300 inc VAT, made from the same steel as PugSport.

 

The guy is gonna phone me back with the exact spec of the steel used. He sent a set of PTS ones away and had the metal analysed and is fairly sure hismetalwork is near identical.

[camgti 56]

The steel can be the same grade. If its not heat treated its not the same spec so to speak. We had a set sag after a run around the block. Not trying to scare you just dont want you to find out the hard way.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Understood Cam.

 

I'll do a bit more research but from what i gather the steel should be EN24T which is a heat treated steel.

 

This is then machined with the splines etc.

 

Whether or not it needs to be heat treated again after the machining i'm not sure. ( i wouldn't think so as maybe the splines could distort?)

 

Does anyone know the max diameter at the splines? I'm wondering if for example a 21mm bar has to start life off at 25mm to have enough meat to allow for correct sizing of splines. Or is the max dia at the splines less than 21mm? meaning only the ends need machine work.

 

Edit

Just seen a pic and the splines are bigger dia than bar, meaning say a 25mm bar would need to be turned down to 21mm......... Errr i think i would like it heat treated again after the extent of machine work in that case.

Edited August 14, 2015 by dobboy

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Don't know who has told you EN24T but that is not a spring steel.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Hi Tom, i got it from here

 

http://www.spoox.co.uk/en/rear-suspension/2016-peugeot-205-grp-a-23mm-competition-torsion-bar-kit.html

[petert 585]

Ahhh, the black art of torsion bars. It really needs to be EN25, EN26 or 4340. You need to machine the bars before they're hardened. There's actually an intermediate stage of stress relieving before final machining, if they're done properly. Thus the high cost of a well done bar. Heat treating is expensive.

 

Broaching for internal splines, cut or roll the external splines.

[jord294 92]

The only ones I'd pay full price for would be from Chris (309PUG)

I agree

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Is anyone else wanting/needing bars? that we could persuade 309pug to do a batch?

[petert 585]

Stick an add on Aussiefrogs for a group buy.