What Engines Will Fit ?

[Guest Antoni1.9]

Can anyone help with a definitive list of engines that fit into the 1.9 Gti relatively easily?

 

I know the Mi16 / BX 16V route is well known and understand the work involved with manifolds / dizzy etc, but my thoughts are that all of these donor cars are likely to be high mileage, they are all quite old now & the price seems to be going up due to demand from us.

 

 

I would like to stick with the XU type series engine, so Im not messing about with engine mountings etc and would like to know what options are open to us from the 306, 406 or any other Peugeots, or from the Citroen range such as Xsara VTS.

 

I would like to know power outputs are available as standard, and if the 205 gearbox fits, or will this be required from the donor vehicle.

 

Comments on Pitfalls regarding engine management & fuel injection would be appreciated as would info on the main mods needed such as radiator etc.

 

I know Im asking a lot, and theres a lot on different engines on the forum, but what I am after is a definitive Yes / No list with main pros & cons.

 

The reason for the enquiry is that although the pug was good at Donny on Sunday, especially in wet handling, once the track dried out, the power deficiency over modern motors on the straights was obvious. Once I have the engine options defined, I can start to track down an appropriate engine.

 

Many thanks in Advance

 

Antoni

[speedy 2]

1.6 gti 105bhp

1.6 gti 115 bhp

1.9 gti 128 bhp

1.9 gti 122 bhp CAT

mi16 1.9 alloy block 160 bhp

mi16 iron block 2.0 ( late 405 / 306 xsi 16v) 155 bhp

2.0 8v turbo ( 406 / xantia) 150 bhp

2.0 T16 ( 405 T16) 200 bhp

Gti - 6 168 bhp

 

the only other engine nonstadard of the above that is relatively lightweight is the alloy block mi16. considering the power, ease of use, and tuning parts available plus the added bonus of the weight that is why it is so popular.

 

The 2.0 turbo 8v is the second most popular option ...... there is a turbo in it being the main reason

[Guest mrswampy]

speedy some of your figures are incorrect.

 

the 306 xsi 16v has around 135 bhp.

its the s16 engine that has 155,this is easily upped to around 170 by fitting the gti6 manifold and doing away with the cat.

 

there is also the gti6 engine,theres a thread on one of the forums saying the weight diffence isnt that much between the ally and cast engines.

in the region of 15kg i think,which isnt too bad considering the increase in power and shouldnt affect the handling that much

[Guest Admin]

15kg and the rest from my experience the cast block was quite a lot heavier then the alloy one, and also the GTI-6 is supposedly inferior to the MI16, que miles to explain this one.

 

The only engine i'd fit is the MI16 as it just seems to sit nicely in the engine bay, why the french puddings at pug never did it in the first place is beyond me.

[Guest Antoni1.9]

Thanks for The info -

 

I'm not really into turbo engines, so it looks like S16 or Gti 6

 

Where these fitted into Citroens ?

 

 

What happened to the XSi 16V ?, only 135 BHP.?

 

 

 

Am I right in thinking that the S16 is basically an Iron block Mi16 ? - and what did they do to the Gti 6 to get the power ?.

 

 

Can i keep the 205 BE1 box & what do I need interms of engine management ?

 

Regards

 

Antoni

[Guest mrswampy]

here you go

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/forum/index...showtopic=16233

 

knew id read it somewhere.

 

not sure but i know if you fit the gti6 exhasut manifold to thes16 engine it frees up a good few horses.

its something im planning on doing over winter.

[Guest Seb_CTI]

Hi Antoni1.9, the 167BHP GTI6 engine is also in the Xsara VTS. The 2.0 16V (155BHP) was used in the ZX, (late)405 MI16 and 306S16. The 2.0 16V (135BHP) went in to the 306XSI, 406, 605, Xantia and XM as did the 2.0 Turbo (150BHP)(not 306/605).

I believe the BE1 gearbox fits to all the engines but the clutch may not. If I remember right the 205 uses a 195mm clutch, the MI16 uses 215mm clutch that fits the BE1 box and the 2.0 turbo uses a 235mm clutch that does not fit. I think many people use a MI16 flywheel/clutch but certainly with some mix and match of clutch / flywheel it can all be made to work.

If I were doing a swap I would want a compleate car and use the engine wiring loom and management system from it. Also with a compleate car you could drive it about to get a better idea of the engine's condition and you're more likely to have everything you need.

Pesonally I like the idea of a 2.0 turbo, 160+ Lbft @ 2500rpm, but that's just me. I think you can "just up the boost" for close to 200BHP too.

Seb

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I thought the later 306 XSi was 137bhp, the same as the 206 GTi until the GTi-180 was made.

 

These wil & do fit in the 205 engine bay but there is quite a lot of wiring changing to do for the management systems. The Mi16 is the easiest & most common route.

 

Apparently the only difference between the engine fitted to the 306 Xsi & 306 GTi-6 is the head, valves & cam's.

 

My choice of route if I was to use an engine not originally fitted to the 205 would have to be Mi16 ATM, just finding a good one that doesn't need rebuilding is pretty hard, but then finding a 306 XSi engine that hasn't done a similar milage could be pretty difficult.

 

Graham.

[jacobs53 0]

Pesonally I like the idea of a 2.0 turbo, 160+ Lbft @ 2500rpm, but that's just me. I think you can "just up the boost" for close to 200BHP too

 

sort of, not as easy as that unless you have the ecu re-mapped to increase te fueling on boost.

 

But I am using a air correction jet in the exhasut system 30 degrees 3 inches away from the lamba sensor, which in theroy makes the engine think it is running lean so it adds more fuel cheating but it works

 

IL draw a picture to explain one day

 

the 1.6 and 1.9gti use a 180mm flywheel

mi16 uses a 215mm flywheel

2.0 turbo uses 235mm flywheel

 

the 235mm flywheel won't fit inside a BE1/3 box, need to use the mi16 flywheel 215mm. And add a turbo diesel clutch 215mm and you have one good clutch for torque.

 

cheers lee

[jackherer 543]

But I am using a air correction jet in the exhasut system 30 degrees 3 inches away from the lamba sensor, which in theroy makes the engine think it is running lean so it adds more fuel   cheating but it works

I'm pretty sure the 2.0 turbo ECU (along with most other ECUs) only reads data from the lamda sensor on part throttle. Under full throttle conditions it will ignore the (now wildly innaccurate) lambda and revert to open loop running.

 

so even if you're mod does increase fuelling under boost it will decrease again under full throttle resulting in detonation.

[jacobs53 0]

your joking???? It took me ages to think of that little scam!

 

I thought it always adjusted the fueling depending on the amount of CO2 in the exhaust, and adjusted accordingly.

 

Are you sure? as my friend had his lamba sensor fail and it massivly overfuelled reslulting in 50 muiles to a tenner, and he was always foot to the floor. Now if your saying it only read from the lamba sensor on part throttle, surley the MPG wouldn't of been affected, on full throttle.

 

I'm hoping your wrong for my cheating self, but i think your right.

 

dam back to the drawing board!

 

cheers lee

[jackherer 543]

even if it worked it'd be crude! I don't think you'll find a reliable 'ghetto' (can't remember who I have to thank for that quote!) fuelling solution with sucha modern ecu, each time you defeat one sensor the ecu will compensate based on readings from another. On older setups you might get away with increasing the fuel pressure and/or tweaking the coolant temp sensor but with a late programmable motronic setup I think you should just bite the bullet and get it mapped (or buy a thrid party chip, I heard the dutch guys were going to be distributing one...).

[jackherer 543]

this article describes lambdas better than I could...

 

http://members.aol.com/emeraldm3d/ems.htm#cleverstuff

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

All engines: http://www.205gti.com/techenginesUK.htm

[Guest Antoni1.9]

Thanks for all the replies, very helpful.

 

Now to convince the wife !!

 

Antoni

[Guest Drifter]

The 306Xsi has a 2.0 8v engine producing 123 bhp. The S16 had 155 and the GtI-6 had 167 bolted to the 6speed box. That 8V engine was the same as fitted to the ZX Volcane and the 155 the same as the ZX 16V. Hope that has cleared things up!