Damper Settings - Recommendations For A Circuit Car

[camgti 56]

How many laps are you uk boys doing per event? 1 event seems seriously off to be running out if brake pads.

 

Parry you do plenty of laps too?

 

Cam

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

307HDI setup, running currently Project Mu pad with pedal box. Car is 800kgs with over 250hp. getting 1G in braking force

 

Surprising choice for a trackday car? The 307 calipers are really heavy. I would grab the gti6 brakes...

[parry 23 1 Cars]

Lighter setup is on the wish list...They were available at the time... Looking at willwoods or hispec next

[parry 23 1 Cars]

4 sprint events a year:

1 x 10 min (6 laps) qual session

1 x 6 lapper

1 x 8 lapper

1 x 10 lapper

 

= 30laps x 4 = 120 laps

 

Plus

 

1 enduro, 130 laps

 

plus 2 track days

 

100+ laps

 

So over 350 laps a year....

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Lighter setup is on the wish list...They were available at the time... Looking at willwoods or hispec next

 

You could consider megane brembo's. I run them with 302mm (bloody heavy) discs, but the total weight of calipers+discs is similar to the 307hdi setup.

If you could make them work on 283mm 307 discs, you have a significant weight reduction and Endless provides pads for these calipers.

[petert 588]

 

Surprising choice for a trackday car? The 307 calipers are really heavy. I would grab the gti6 brakes...

It's not holding him up, believe me. I pour lead into every part I make for him now.

[welshpug 1,658]

the rally Saxo I service for I think has only had one set of pads on for two years which is about ten rallies with 70 Belgian stage miles each, it does have some very nice ap calipers and belled discs though, and plenty of air around them as its on 17" wheels.

[welshpug 1,658]

You could consider megane brembo's. I run them with 302mm (bloody heavy) discs, but the total weight of calipers+discs is similar to the 307hdi setup.

If you could make them work on 283mm 307 discs, you have a significant weight reduction and Endless provides pads for these calipers.

 

307 discs would be a bit narrow and small radius wise, they are made for a larger radius disc at 28mm wide, which brackets and wheels do you have?

 

I have the Pendulum motorsport brackets and 310mm discs.

 

 

20150919_193222 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 

20150919_193143_LLS by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

Edited October 7, 2015 by welshpug

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

It's not holding him up, believe me. I pour lead into every part I make for him now.

I believe you right away.... I just didn't expect those brakes if you look at the high spec of the rest of the car...

 

 

My brackets are homemade (= made by friend who's a CNC expert for a living)

I'm surprised to see that you get PTS rims on those brakes. I was thinking on reducing to 283mm if I get my hands on a set of PTS rims, but might give it a try on the current brakes once I find a set. (have 16" now)

 

​

Edited October 7, 2015 by wicked

[welshpug 1,658]

they have been "massaged" quite a bit on the corners, a dust cover will not fit over the upper bleed nipple, I would advise a small spacer tbh!

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

not sure about laps as they vary so much! But its roughly about 2 hours at race pace for a pad set.

 

The sprint racing im doing now hardly wears the pads at all. Must just be the sustained high temps from 45min/1hour races.

 

Are endless available for a 1.9gti caliper? :/ would be surprised if they are.

 

I have those brembos! On the car they were made for I use performance friction pads with those and they are amazing. They are the motorsport compound so a little too much bite for the road. Would buy for the 205 if they were available.

[petert 588]

Are endless available for a 1.9gti caliper? :/ would be surprised if they are.

Yes.

[Batfink 201]

If you want a set Henry I can get them..

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Henry, when I saw your car at Oulton with the front wheel off I was suprised how small the brakes looked. The 1.9 pads are a very small area compared to a more modern caliper. I guess you have kept them to keep unsprung weight low. But would it not be worth thinking about a small increase to maybe a 266mm setup with a larger pad?

[Batfink 201]

a much larger pad will help pad wear massively. I always do a double take when I get 205 pads in as they are in tiny boxes, I think theres a mistake and I have a rear set..

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

yep agree with you all, but its something I don't see myself getting value out of as the car is strong on brakes and I think with the sprint racing pad wear will me much much lower. If I were to upgrade brakes it would be to a proper 4-pot setup, Alcon or the likes, and sort the rear bias out whilst I'm at it. Currently has a bias valve that sits at full rear, so no point in having the valve! Lose out when its wet but at least its stable. But again never committed to it due to £ vs lap time.

 

What's the price on a set of Endless then? No idea what compounds they offer or which would be suitable. Ill be ordering some pads for next season from you regardless kev RC6 most likely!

 

Ive started a weight reduction spreadsheet car will be ~50kg lighter for next season so that will help brakes as well

 

Seeing as this topic is about damper settings... Can anyone suggest a change to my front damping to get the bloody thing off the line. Can't launch the car for love nor money. I get a lot of wheel hop / judder around the almost hooking up point and it continues into second gear sometimes. Too much wheelspin is smooth however, but slow obviously. And too little is a no go as too scared to stall it. I have (I assume low speed) rebound only adjustment on the front. Any suggestions as its not something I can test until next race.

 

cheers

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Your looking at the wrong end of the car for a start Henry.

 

For a circuit car you should really change the following: increase rear low speed compression, rear spring rate or increase rake to increase traction for a standing start. You'll get the judder still most likely as this is an effect of the tyre mainly not the damper/spring package however you'll be able to launch better.

Edited October 8, 2015 by EdCherry

[Rippthrough 98]

A lot of the hop can be drivetrain related too depending on what your mountings are like, both engine and wishbone.

[petert 588]

 

 

What's the price on a set of Endless then?

Depends on the material, but for what you want around AUS$400.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

to be honest its never been this bad launching the car. And the only thing to change is stiffer rear dampers (helps anyway?) and the tyre. Not run on the dunlops before. So would mainly put it down to these, just need to practice.

 

Engine mounts are all harder rubber with a solid fork bush and the wishbones are standard but all in good shape and relatively new. As above never really been an issue until these tyres.

[parry 23 1 Cars]

Try running a 10mm rake, ie: the rear higher than the front by 10mm. Works a treat for me, its the pressure plate that lets me down now, need strong pressure for the torque of the motor. Also I launch at 6000rpm, drop the clutch initially to get rolling then stab it to stop wheel spin.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Think you've answered your own question there then!

[SweetBadger 94]

 

I get the same wear rate as you Henry with the standard calipes / discs, 2hrs ish at race pace. I also get the dust covers melting! I think you're right about the sustained high temps killing the pads quicker, and the pad wedging doesn't help either.

 

Number of laps depends on the circuit, and to an extent so does pad wear - Cadwell park almost killed a set in 1 weekend, but Silverstone was nowhere near as bad.

 

When you think about it it's false economy not to upgrade to a slightly bigger setup if you can make the pads last 1.5-2x longer. I think the heat generated doesn't help with the cv joints too, I've had a lot of trouble with cv boots going pop this year and I think it's down to the boots inflating when the grease / air gets too hot.

 

I'm going to move up to a 266mm setup next season. I think there are quite a few options for caliper choice (306 s16, 206gti, 306hdi), does anyone know which is the better caliper for pad choice?

 

Kev I'd also be interested in trying a set of endless pads.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The 306 S16 calipers are not great from my experience, the pads are no bigger than 1.9 GTI.

 

I would look at 206 GTI stuff, just because its widely available and not as old age wise!

[petert 588]

HDi are much bigger and the pick of 266mm setups.