What Brake Set Up And Tyres Are You Using On Fast Road/track Car?

[m_john_m 4]

I am in the process of building a track car. It's currently got an MI engine, lowered on spax, not sure whether just springs or have dampers, going to check today. It's got a cage in it and is sort of ready for some track day fun.

 

I went to the three sister race track on saturday(I know it's a small track) but we went as a tester for the car to see what It needed.

 

Turns out the brakes aren't the best and the tyres seem to let go before the car does.

 

IV read that people use the 1.9 set up with ds2500 pads. I have 306 gti set up on my other 205 and that stops very well.

 

Would you suggest buying a 306 set up? IV also read you accelerate slower? Is it noticeable? IV just bought some compomotive THs and they seem a lot lighter than the speed lines that are currently on it.

 

Also what tyres do people use? I would need something that can work on both wet and dry surfaces..... Due to living in the north the weather is unpredictable.

 

I'm looking to do anglessey on 1st may as my first track daylight I have a few weeks to prepare

[welshpug 1,655]

200 ish bhp zx 16v, 1100kg+, standard 283mm brakes up front with genuine citroen pads all round.

 

205, 140 ish bhp 8v, standard calipers all round, Mintex 1144 pads.

 

 

Michelin PE2 and Citroen C5 wheels all round, nevcer found the brakes lacking ever, though I'm not hard on brakes myself.

[m_john_m 4]

Do you not feel it's worth upgrading to gti6 brakes? I gave it some proper stick around three sisters and I felt it could have been a lot better.....

 

I will have a look at PE2s, it's got michelins on it but not sure what type but I don't rate them, every time I went to put a bit of power down round a bend it just either under steered or span up! It was in second gear though lol

[welshpug 1,655]

not on my 205 no.

 

do you have an LSD/ATB?

[m_john_m 4]

No not as of yet, won't be putting an lsd on it for a good while. For the moment it's a cheap track car. When you start putting LSD in them s*it gets serious I'm going to use it for the summer on track and see how it plays out. May buy something different afterwards that's a bit quicker/RWD

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

IMO you want to be looking at m1155s or ds2500s as a minimum requirement on a track car, plus decent quality discs like brembos. Make sure the calipers and hoses are in good condition and that you replace the fluid with either 5.1 or some high temp dot4.

Standard pads will not put up with prolonged track use, nor will old fluid.

 

Tyre wise, as you have a very basic suspension set up I'd be looking at more road biased stuff, maybe some second hand semis.

[welshpug 1,655]

personally I would put the diff in right now.

 

s*it got serious as soon as you bought a dedicated track car

[Malc 45]

Lotus AP calipers with Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads, good quality high temp fluid and standard set up discs/pads on the rear with the compensators removed, manages to stop the car no problem!!

 

Have to agree with WP, the diff is a must for a track motor, makes a massive difference.

 

I ran Toyo R1Rs as a track tyre, great in the wet, however they can be overheated in hot dry days, so short runs are best. Overall though worthwhile considering.

[m_john_m 4]

Lotus AP calipers? There massive, Iv got a lotus Carlton should I take them off that haha!!! I may price them up as they would look sick! would they fit under 15" wheels?

 

I will be hanging the brake fluid to probably dot 5.1 as the focus St lads use it.

 

I can't really afford a dif ate moment, barely have enough to find this track car! I do quite like the lairyness of it being simple! If I keep it as a track car I will throw a dif in it!

 

Thanks for Al the help by the way! I Have never built a track car so it's a steep learning curve! I need to check whether I have coilovers or just springs!

[jorg 11]

i think Malc will be talking about the 2 pot calipers like these: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=115988

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Hi, I've got a 307/206 Gti 283mm set up for sale on the forum. Sport Japan discs, DS3000 pads. £200.00 collected. http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=163654%23entry1454738

[m_john_m 4]

Hi, I've got a 307/206 Gti 283mm set up for sale on the forum. Sport Japan discs, DS3000 pads. £200.00 collected. http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=163654%23entry1454738

Are they a direct fit?

[Castorkid 11 1 Cars]

Yes they came straight off my 1.9 and fitted fine under Speedlines. Pedal travel increase is a little less than the Gti6 caliper set up due to the slightly smaller piston size. I didn't feel the need to change to a 406 mc. For me, I found the stopping performance was a huge increase over the standard Gti set up. Used calipers, and new discs and pads cost me about £450 two years ago.

[m_john_m 4]

Yes they came straight off my 1.9 and fitted fine under Speedlines. Pedal travel increase is a little less than the Gti6 caliper set up due to the slightly smaller piston size. I didn't feel the need to change to a 406 mc. For me, I found the stopping performance was a huge increase over the standard Gti set up. Used calipers, and new discs and pads cost me about £450 two years ago.

Ok. Ste I'm quite interested, I will let you know

[petert 585]

I run the GTi6 calipers with Endless pads. I prefer the GTi6 setup over the 307/206 set up because the rotor is thinner and the GTi6 calipers are more rigid. Under heavy use the 307/206 calipers flex wedging the pads. The 307/206 rotor is 26mm compared to 22mm for the 306.

[welshpug 1,655]

pads are significantly cheaper in the clio pattern which fits the gti6 caliper.

[m_john_m 4]

Ahhhh I may stick with gti6 set up then.

 

Going to look for used parts for the first track day justto see how I get on

[Batfink 201]

The problem with the gti-6 setup is unsprung weight. I never liked the handling of the 205 with them on. I would look at running the smallest discs with proper race pad compound.

I would look at something like the CL Brakes RC5 or CL Brakes RC6E - not the cheapest but they give an excellent bite no matter what you throw at it. These two compounds last a decent amount too.

 

I'm starting to sell a few of the Japanese brands like Winmax as the pads last a lot longer than the European brands

[m_john_m 4]

I didn't exactly think my red 205 handled worse for having bigger brakes! It will defenity be quicker around a track due to the extra stopping force.... Without spending a lot of money on pads alone.

 

Them pads do look pretty awesome though, for now i dont fancy paying out 350 just for pads..... Maybe in the future when I start taking it a bit more serious

[tomcolinjones 26]

wasn't there a big thread discussion ages ago about how bigger front brakes reduced overall stopping distance due to the rear not having the correct % of braking and weight transfer not being optimum? And your brakes are only ever as good as your tyres

[welshpug 1,655]

Them pads do look pretty awesome though, for now i dont fancy paying out 350 just for pads..... Maybe in the future when I start taking it a bit more serious

only 350 if you buy the rears too, its a silly glitch on kevs site that insists on selecting a full set to give you a heart attack, rc5+ in clio pattern is about 130

[m_john_m 4]

wouldnt it be best to buy front and rears??

 

im quite tempted with this 307 set up with tarox disks. was speaking some someone last night and they said its a good set up.

 

hmmmmmm decisions decisions

[m_john_m 4]

wasn't there a big thread discussion ages ago about how bigger front brakes reduced overall stopping distance due to the rear not having the correct % of braking and weight transfer not being optimum? And your brakes are only ever as good as your tyres

 

is that true tom?

 

dont worry i am getting some decent tyres for it it needs them after my recent small track day, tyres let go before the car did! even though i was going on three wheels on almost every corner ahah

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Not true... in the sense that the tires alone do not determine the max braking power. I read it before on the forum and that abstraction is too far from reality.

 

The maximum braking force is something like:

 

Fbrake = Faxle * Mdyn * g * ufrict.

 

Faxle is the max you brakes can do

Mdyn is the dynamic mass on you axle (higher on the front if you brake harder)

ufrict is the friction coefficient of your tires.

 

So bigger/better brakes do improve on the same tires. And if you brake harder, the mass on the front wheel does increase and increase the max braking force.

(Also better tires (higher ufrict) do improve braking with same brakes)

 

 

I had 307 283mm brakes on the front in the past and replaced them by Megane Brembo's with 302mm discs and they prove the theory above without doubt.

 

In your situation I would stick to the gti6 brakes. They have larger piston diameter and do a better job than the 307 brakes.

I have the 266mm brakes with bosch 54mm pistons on my 206 and think they are the same level as the 307 283mm brakes with 54mm piston.

Edited April 8, 2015 by wicked

[tomcolinjones 26]

surely, layman's terms, say your doing 60mph and you slam the brakes on and the wheels lock up.... Its not your brakes that you need to improve? Given all 4 wheels lock. Fitting better tyres will make it harder to lock all 4 wheels. Reducing stopping distance. If your fitting bigger discs/larger pad area/ better piston size to reduce fade and effort required on the pedal that's different. Am I wrong in my basic un educated understanding?