Think I Have A Tapper

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

I'd still be inclined to try and isolate if it's a bent valve or a sticky lifter before making any costly decisions.

 

It could be worth sticking an engine flush through and a top end treatment forte stuff I've always found to be pretty good.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I've just watched a bit of an engine rebuild of a 106 race engine. The guy couldn't really understand how i could have bent a valve turning the engine over by hand and not using total brute force, although he isn't familiar with the GTI6 engine.

 

He also said give it a flush and also some sort of friction reducer additive.

 

Can someone explain to me what makes a tapper a tapper so i can explain to him?

[Plumbob 66 1 Cars]

Does it tap all the time? Hot or cold? Surely a tapper is a tapper because of a bent valve? Simple as that?

[welshpug 1,657]

these engines have relatively large valves on thin 6mm stems, valve clearances are quite minimal at TDC due to very small valve reliefs in the pistons and the proximity of the piston to the valve at TDC.

 

also due to the size and angle of the valves the exhaust and inlet valves can clash if the camshafts are turned independently;

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Yeah hot and cold PB

 

Is it the valve not seating correctly when closed that makes it tap as it strikes the head? Or valve to valve? Or piston to valve?

 

The guy earlier asked me stuff i know nada about. Has these engines got hydraulic lifters?

 

As i said (i think) the guy isn't convinced i could have bent a valve turning engine over by hand and showed me a couple of pistons with valve marks on them, and said the valves were ok on that occasion.

 

I'll give the engine a flush and see if the noise magically disappears lol

[welshpug 1,657]

the "tap" is the valve not seating squarely on the valve seat, they do have double valve springs (one smaller diameter inside the main spring) so the force is quite strong and they do still seal very well.

 

they do indeed have hydraulic tappets, and whilst they can cause a tapping noise if the oil is a bit thin or they are tired, they do usually quieten down unless faulty, which is relatively rare.

 

Aftermarket ones are rather hit and miss.

 

Mention a Tapper to anyone that knows anything about peugeot's will know what you mean what will happen eventually with a tapping engine is that the valve head will detach from the stem, with typically catastrophic consequences as you can imagine, how long a tapper will last is anyone's guess, few hundred miles few thousand, tens of thousands.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

these engines have relatively large valves on thin 6mm stems, valve clearances are quite minimal at TDC due to very small valve reliefs in the pistons and the proximity of the piston to the valve at TDC.

 

also due to the size and angle of the valves the exhaust and inlet valves can clash if the camshafts are turned independently;

WP, it's difficult to say for sure but i don't think i ever turned the cam shafts separately. But when the crank pulley wasn't seated correctly i definately touched piston to valve (i'm sure)

 

To give you an idea of how much muscle i used, i would guess around 40nM before i realised something wasn't right.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Are you sure? Any idea where from?

 

The ones i've seen are 200-300 for a set.

Got them trade from a local motor factors

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Dizzee, i'm sure if SOS do the job then they'll have a source but i'll phone about today as i would like an idea of what i'm going to have to spend.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

I got mine from peugeot and they were very expensive iirc £30 odd a valve?

[welshpug 1,657]

original valves were TRW IIRC, they'll be about £8 each from a motorfactor or engineering shop.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Found this thread, which shows me what the bits actually look like.

 

http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=139818&page=1

 

 

WP, on that thread you posted a link to a document showing the head dismantling procedure, the links dead now, do you have the doc saved anywhere else?

[welshpug 1,657]

unfortunately not, but it'll just be a copy of the dealer data fo that engine.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks anyway.

 

I've got a fairly large doc on the engine, removal/refitting all the bits and bobs, i imagine your doc was part or all of it.

[Malc 45]

There GTI 180 engines mounts in the for sale section...........temping??

 

I know you just love taking engines in and out of your motor.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I seen them Malc.... Yes i was tempted, be handy to have for the future lol

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Video of the tap.... Hopefully the link works

 

http://youtu.be/KllT6Sz1gx0

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Matt, would the Fortes top end stuff ruin my current oil if i tried it?

 

I'm still waiting on SOS coming back to me.... Might end up having to try sort this out myself.

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

No it's an additive it'll be fine, never really got answered but would a leak down test show anything if it was a valve issue?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

From what i've read leak down and compression tests wouldn't necessarily show anything as the valve can still sit back in it's seat, the tap comes from it hitting something prior to going into it's seat.

 

I spoke to someone else today who builds mini engines and he thought it would be difficult to bend a valve by hand too, and suggested sticky lifter.

 

Think i'll order some Fortes stuff if it won't do any harm to my oil.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

This all seems a very difficult way if doing things. You have a known good engine, put it back in the car, done.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

This all seems a very difficult way if doing things. You have a known good engine, put it back in the car, done.

That'd be too easy.

 

Neither of these engines have had HG's, so i'd rather get this tap fixed and HG replaced then hopefully not have to fo anything for a while.

 

If i was putting other engine in i'd be changing HG prior to putting it in too.

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

Rule out as much as you can on a cost effective basis, I'd personally stick a flush through it stick some new oil in and a top end treatment and make a decision if it still persists.

[Kane 34]

Although a different motor it sounds suspiciously like my problem:

 

http://vid1288.photobucket.com/albums/b491/KHarrison31905/20141117_184954_zpsuypm2a73.mp4

 

I've had the head off mine, stripped it down and there are no apparent signs of contact marks on either the valves or pistons. One thing I did notice when I took it apart was one lifter on the inlet side was not retaining oil and therefore the piston could be moved easily just using my finger. This I suspect is what was causing the racket.

 

However, I've got the head and valves packaged up and will be dropped off to be checked over to make sure everything is as it should be but on visual inspection they all looked ok.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Yeah Matt, i'm going to do as you say but tbh i think i'll be putting off the enevitable. But as SOS seem too busy at the moment i'll need to do something as it's bugging my tits.

 

I'm not exactly spoiled for choice with people who'd know what they're doing to fix it locally.