Will Not Start :(

[fairway1 5]

Hi all,

 

I have a 1988 1.6 205 auto, the one with the Weber 36TLC carb.

 

It's been off the road for just over a year now but I have been starting it up regularly.

 

It now suddenly refuses to start. I've checked the following but with no success:

 

• Carb has been removed, stripped, cleaned thoroughly & replaced.

 

• Fuel is deffinately getting to the carb. There is also plenty of fuel in the tank.

 

• All HT leads, spark plugs, dizzy cap etc are all less than a year old so are all good. The battery is brand new.

 

• When turning the key the engine is really trying to start but it does not fire up. The engine will start for a second or two with a good squirt of Easystart so we know the engine is not siezed & the starter is good.

 

The car has run rough since I've had it. It's a tw*at to start in a morning & usually stalls if you accellerate heavily, which was the reason I recently removed, stripped & cleaned the carb.

 

I'm thinking perhaps the coil could be on it's way out & that is making the ignition spark weak? I'm not that good mechanically so any thoughts if I' on the right track would be mega helpful right now.

 

I'm at a bit of a loss what to check next so if anyone can point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks guys!!!!

[woodymi16 24 2 Cars]

How old is the fuel in the tank?

[Ryan 99]

Is the choke working correctly?

[fairway1 5]

How old is the fuel in the tank?

 

 

I put £15 worth in about 5 or 6 weeks ago. I can see the fuel flowing through the pipe into the carb so I think the fuel is ok.

 

Could the fuel pump be on it's way out?.........The reason I am asking is EVERYTIME when trying to start from cold it does take a few seconds of cranking before you can see the fuel flowing along the fuel pipe into the carb, almost like trying to start a car which has just been run out of fuel then had a jerry can of petrol added? You know, when you have to wait for the new fuel to get around the system before it fires back into life.

 

I think when it's switched off all the fuel in the system could be trickling back into the tank rather than staying pressurised in the feed pipe to the engine.

 

My 205 has always been like this but I never got to the bottom of it. Not sure if this is related to why it won't start now (...but it could very well be)

 

Hope that makes at least some sense!

[fairway1 5]

Is the choke working correctly?

 

I'm operating the choke manually by hand at the moment. I'm not driving the car at the moment just firing it up on the drive but I'm looking at putting it back on the road February time.

 

I've tried the choke on and off but still no joy

 

 

I'm going to look at sending the carb to one of those firms that refurbish them in the New Year. The auto choke has been a real pain since day one & hopefully they may be able to convert it to a manual choke while it's there.

Edited December 29, 2014 by fairway1

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

My CJ struggles to start first time if its not been run for a Few days. A mechanic i know who hasn't looked at it thought it might be a split carb diaphram?

 

Something along the lines of air gets in and fills the fuel pipe, and as its a mech fuel pump the engine has to crank to refill the fuel line. A 1/4 manual choke (even hot weather) and it starts after a few attempts.

[fairway1 5]

My CJ struggles to start first time if its not been run for a Few days. A mechanic i know who hasn't looked at it thought it might be a split carb diaphram?

 

Something along the lines of air gets in and fills the fuel pipe, and as its a mech fuel pump the engine has to crank to refill the fuel line. A 1/4 manual choke (even hot weather) and it starts after a few attempts.

 

 

That sounds very plausable. My 205 has the electric fuel pump but it's never ran right since I first bought it & had it on the road.

 

It used to drive ok after it fully warmed up but it's since deteriorated & the hesitating / stalling when accellerating hard got worse & worse to the stage now where it won't even start.

 

I even fitted a tight new jubilee clip around the fuel feed pipe where it connects to the carb to make sure no air was sneaking in the fuel system there.

 

There's definitely no fuel leaks & the metal fuel pipes where all replaced a few months ago.

[fairway1 5]

I've even had the fuel pump out to make sure the pump's filter is clean. I've also had the tiny fuel filter out of the carb to make sure that is clean aswell.

[dcc 855]

Have you got a strong spark and clean plugs? Also have you got good compression?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Air filter ok?

[Ozymandis 97]

If it starts and runs for a short time with easystart, then its not an ignition air or mechanical problem.

Pour a bit of petrol down the carb and see if it starts for a short while, this will confirm its fuel related.

I did this yesterday to a W123 280ce ,it felt a bit dodgy pouring fuel about, but it fired and ran for a while, and confirmed no fuel as fault.

Not relevant to your problem, but that car had a dodgy tachymetric relay so the fuel pump wouldnt run.

[fairway1 5]

Have you got a strong spark and clean plugs? Also have you got good compression?

 

Spark plugs are less than 2000 miles old & are clean + correctly gapped.

 

I haven't got access to a compression tester, are there any symptoms or other ways I can tell if there is low compression.....?

 

I'll check how strong the spark looks when I get a few minutes to myself this weekend. The battery has been on charge as I nearly flattened it the other day trying to start the car

Edited December 31, 2014 by fairway1

[fairway1 5]

Air filter ok?

 

Yep. All the usual service bits (filters, leads plugs, dizzy cap etc) where replaced fairly recently & have done less than 2000 miles.

[Ozymandis 97]

Pour fuel in carb does it start?

[fairway1 5]

Pour fuel in carb does it start?

 

 

I'll try it this weekend & will let you know.................

[Ozymandis 97]

Did you get anywhere with this?

[fairway1 5]

Did you get anywhere with this?

 

Aha! Sorry it's been a while I've been busy with work & not had chance to tinker with my 205 until this afternoon.

 

Yes, the car will start if I pour a little petrol down the carb.

 

I had the carb off earlier to try & see what the problem is.

 

• Fuel is definitely flowing into the carb
• I removed the diaphragm to double check I fitted it the right way when I stripped it recently and all seemed well.
• I removed and checked the tiny gauze fuel filter and all seemed well.
• There was some fuel in the float chamber, but not very much. Only about half a centimetre deep with petrol? Shouldn't it be more full than this?
• When I twist the throttle on the side of the carb (as though I'm reving it by hand), shouldn't I be able to see / hear it squirting fuel into the manifold......? When I do that at the minute I really don't think any fuel at all is being squirted into the manifold.........

As far as I can tell fuel is getting to the carb but there seems to be a blockage of some sort somewhere. Anyone got any ideas? Or would it be best if I admited defeat and bit the financial bullet & sent the carb away to someone like Gower & Lee and get them to strip & refurbish it?

 

Cheers!

[idoari 10]

did you check the coil and the ignition amp ? most likely it's the amp.

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

did you check the coil and the ignition amp ? most likely it's the amp.

 

Ignition amp tends to cause mid-range misfire and warm starting issues and the coil is obviously working as the engine is starting somewhat.

 

Ashley, before reading through the whole thread I would've said a fuelling issue. After reading through it sounds like the fuel is not being injected into the manifold by the carb. I don't know a whole lot about carbs but I'd try inspecting and cleaning it fully, particularly post-float chamber...just just be a bit of dirt or something has caused a blockage.

Edited April 18, 2015 by scbond

[fairway1 5]

 

 

Ignition amp tends to cause mid-range misfire and warm starting issues and the coil is obviously working as the engine is starting somewhat.

 

Ashley, before reading through the whole thread I would've said a fuelling issue. After reading through it sounds like the fuel is not being injected into the manifold by the carb. I don't know a whole lot about carbs but I'd try inspecting and cleaning it fully, particularly post-float chamber...just just be a bit of dirt or something has caused a blockage.

 

 

did you check the coil and the ignition amp ? most likely it's the amp.

 

 

Many thanks for the advice guys.

 

When last working on the car I noticed fuel pressure in the carb feed pipe was not as much as it should have been and very quickly stopped all together.

 

I then borrowed a compressor from a mate (thinking there's a blockage in the fuel system somewhere) and flushed the fuel system (with the filler cap off) with an air gun down the carb feed pipe to ensure there's no dirt or blockages down there. I also gave all the passages in the carb a good flush so I was relatively satisfied there was no obvious blockages there.

 

I then put the fuel filler cap back on and blew a little air down the carb feed pipe and quickly refitted the pipe to the carb, as the air I'd just pumped to the fuel tank quickly forced fuel back from the tank up towards the carb / engine.

 

Unfortunately all of this had no effect as the car still refuses to start. Fuel was still not getting through the carb to the manifold & theres no fuel pressure from the tank to the carb at all now, so it looks like the carb will have to be sent away for a total refurb and I also appear to need a new fuel pump now.

 

I need to purchase myself a multimetre just to make absolutely sure there is electric current getting to the fuel pump but I'm pretty sure after a carb refurb I'm going to have to add a new fuel pump to the shopping list

Edited April 26, 2015 by fairway1