Steering Column And Rear Axle Issue

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

Hello, I've recently had a VTS Phase.2 PAS system fitted (square drive UJ along with a few other bits) and I'm experiencing a couple of issues. I couldn't be sure until I drove to the local alignment place as the steering/geometry was out. They confirmed the following:

 

The first problem is the steering column UJ isn't far enough through the bulkhead and is fouling the bulkhead gaitor resulting in heavy steering through the 10 to 2 range. Can anyone suggest how I should go about fixing this?

 

The second issue is the rear beam thrust angle has slightly deviated from the centreline towards the NS. Recent work to the rear beam includes Solid Sandwich Mounts (replacing the rubber items) fitted along with a new NS SNR rear wheel bearing, Before these parts were fitted the rear thrust angle came out fine. Is it possible that fitment of these parts caused this issue in the axle or maybe something hasn't been tightened correctly causing the beam to move out of position? Again any idea how I should go about fixing this?

 

Appreciate any advice, cheers!

 

 

[welshpug 1,655]

trim the gaitor is the only thing you can do afaik.

 

which is the thrust angle?! do you mean toe?

 

slacken the beam mounts and see if it will move in a direction which would correct it.

 

have you replaced the front beam bushes?

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

Cheers for the suggestions Mei. Judging from your reply I gather it's a common issue for the UJ to foul the gaitor when changing out the lower UJ to a square drive + P2 VTS rack? I was hoping it was a straight swap affair considering the UJ is a 205 part! Is there any room for adjustment of the column? But sure I'll cut the gaitor it if there's no adjustability as I guess there's no other choice, is that what most people end up doing?

 

About the beam, nope I haven't changed the front beam bushes, only the rear sandwich mounts. Also the N/S rear wheel bearing was changed at the same time. That's the total recent work carried out on the rear axle. Before the above work was carried out on the rear axle there were no issues judging from its previous alignment and driving manner.

 

<----- This is an exaggerated pic of how my rear beam is sitting.

 

If the deviated angle of the beam is taken out the equation, both toe & camber of the rear wheels are within normal according to the alignment place. If the angle is taken into account, the rear has O/S toe in and N/S toe out, they said it seems as if the beam has shifted position. I take it this is a possibility?

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

Proper way to do the late type square drive power rack into a 205 is make a hybrid column using the lower section of the Xsara or 306 one with the upper of a 205 one. If you put the both side by side it's obvious what's required. Lots of folk say the 205 one fits which physically it does, but due to the length of the 205 lower piece it fouls the gaiter and also moves the articulation point of the lower column to a s*ite position.

 

As for rear beam total toe (deviated angle as your readout is calling it) what are we talking? fractions of a degree or what??

[camgti 56]

Its also called Set Bcak on the beam afaik.

 

The distance between front to back axels.

 

My old car had 13mm shorter on the drivers side due to an accident the shell had been in before I had it. 13mm is considered just within tolerence from a factory. Not for me.

 

Its now in a new shell and much straighter.

 

Depending on the amount its out, you could, as Mei suggested slacken the bolts and move it a little or investigate if the shell/chassis is straight.

 

It may just be a case of that as you mention it was fine before.

 

Cam

[Malc 45]

Ams as mentioned above, rear beam I would say just requires adjusting, if the rear mounts have been changed then likely this just requires slackening and adjusting to straighten up, if using the circular solid mounts rather than the original shape then this is more likely as had this issue myself.

 

Just done the same steering rack conversion to my motor, seems fine but not driven as yet, will check mine out.

[Anthony 1,002]

Have you got the small white bush fitted properly on the lower column?

 

If that's missing, the shaft will notably drag on the gaiter. With it fitted as it should be, it's fine on my Xsara rack and 205 square drive column and the steering is/was nice and light when the car was up in the air and no PAS fluid in the system with no suggestion that there was any binding or abnormal resistance from the gaiter.

 

I agree with Tom that the best way of doing the lower column would be a hybrid, but using the 205 non-PAS square drive column has worked absolutely fine on mine and a number of friends cars, most of which have been running like that for years and between them a considerable number of miles. I suspect that the majority of Xsara rack converted cars on the forum are done the same way too.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Re rear beam, why didn't you solid mount the front mounts? They're the ones that make all the difference. As mentioned see if it'll tweak out on the mounts.

 

Is the stub axle straight on the N/S rear? Could be a bent axle giving you some toe out.

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

As for rear beam total toe (deviated angle as your readout is calling it) what are we talking? fractions of a degree or what??

 

The chap told me 9mm, I presume since it's in millimeters this is the Set Back that CamGTI mentioned? I cannot get hold of the alignment place since they're closed due to the xmas period but I've emailed them for more clarification when they return. I'll go with what CamGTI and Malc are saying regarding the rear beam as there is room for movement, I should be able to rectify it.

 

AllenAllen I just did the rear beam mounts for now as it's a quicker and easier job with immediate results (or issues in my case!) I figured I'll deal with the front bushings when refurbishing the beam next year along with fitting new rear brake lines. The N/S stub axle is straight, it was checked when the N/S wheel bearing was installed.

 

 

Have you got the small white bush fitted properly on the lower column?

 

If that's missing, the shaft will notably drag on the gaiter. With it fitted as it should be, it's fine on my Xsara rack and 205 square drive column and the steering is/was nice and light when the car was up in the air and no PAS fluid in the system with no suggestion that there was any binding or abnormal resistance from the gaiter.

 

I agree with Tom that the best way of doing the lower column would be a hybrid, but using the 205 non-PAS square drive column has worked absolutely fine on mine and a number of friends cars, most of which have been running like that for years and between them a considerable number of miles. I suspect that the majority of Xsara rack converted cars on the forum are done the same way too.

 

I did not have a white bush supplied with the lower column Anthony. Though even if I did, according to what Tom and yourself are saying, I'll be better off with a hybrid column as it'll allow the best joint/column articulation? Any ideas where I could find one?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Ams

[Anthony 1,002]

Fit the white bush first and that'll likely fix all the issues.

 

As I said, I and many others are running unmodified 205 lower columns with Xsara racks and it works perfectly.

 

Better off is a relative term I 'spose - theoretically yes, but I'm not sure you'd actually notice any real world difference. Lets put it this way - I'm going to be pulling my car apart in the New Year to make some changes and, despite having the spare 205 and Xsara lower column needed to make a hybrid, I have absolutely no intention of changing what's already on the car it works so well.

[brian j 32]

Proper way to do the late type square drive power rack into a 205 is make a hybrid column using the lower section of the Xsara or 306 one with the upper of a 205 one. If you put the both side by side it's obvious what's required. Lots of folk say the 205 one fits which physically it does, but due to the length of the 205 lower piece it fouls the gaiter and also moves the articulation point of the lower column to a s*ite position.

 

As for rear beam total toe (deviated angle as your readout is calling it) what are we talking? fractions of a degree or what??

 

I followed Tom's advice and did this when I fitted mine.

 

It only took an hour with basic tools and allowed me to strip, clean and re-grease the bearings in the U/J at the same time.

 

I would say it is worth the effort, mine sits perfectly in a PAS gaiter (The bigest PITA was getting the gaiter back in, so if you don't have to remove it to trim it, this is definitely the way to go in my book!)

[Anthony 1,002]

Doesn't need removing or trimming either way you do it, whether it's the 205/Xsara hybrid or the standard 205 lower column.

 

The only time it needs trimming that I know of is if you use the complete Xsara lower column as some early converters did, as that's fatter than the 205 part and won't go through the gaiter.

[welshpug 1,655]

it may be a base model lower column which is different to a gti unit.

[Anthony 1,002]

I've used square lower columns off both GTi and non-GTi models for Xsara rack conversions without issue.

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

I have no idea if it's a base model or GTI lower column, I bought it from ebay a long time ago. There was no white bush supplied I can say this for certain.

 

Going by what you've said Anthony, the hybrid column is ideal but it appears to have only fractionally more benefits than fitting the white bush. So I'll go with just fitting the white bush, as it seems this is the simplest solution to correct my current issue.

 

Does anyone know where I could pick one up please?

[Anthony 1,002]

Was there not one on the original lower column if you've still got it?

 

If not, I imagine that I possibly have one spare that I could pop in the post if you're in no particular hurry, but I imagine that you wouldn't get it until the New Year.

 

Double check that it's defo missing though and not stuck in the gaiter first though. I'm guessing it is missing though, as it's purpose is to stop the rubber gaiter touching the lower column and binding.

 

Worth checking that the UJ isn't seized up too, as quite a few of them are these days and will also cause noticeable stiffness in the steering, and that you've not moved the upper column in the bearings to the point where it's stiff to rotate.

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

I'm not in a rush no as I'm waiting on new front GTI6 braided hoses for the calipers as my current N/S braided hose has suffered damage. Miles said he'll have some more in in January so pretty much waiting till then. The UJ was very compliant and had no play when I picked it up, it seemed to be a very good condition part. I made sure of it from reading up on here.

 

Good point about checking my other column for the bush! It's sitting in a garage at the moment, won't have access till Monday so I'll know by then. I'll report back if it doesn't have it for sure.

 

Many thanks for the advice all, would be lost without this place!