309 Type R

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

Get a mate to bring it along to Pugfest he doesn't have to be a member to get the car into the display . I am bringing my Miami blue 309 GTI and my mate is driving down my Goodwood - we need all the cars we can or the track parade will be a bit sparse !

Good luck with the engine swap , some of these more modern engines do offer cheap/reliable horsepower .At the NEC classic car show last month there was a kitcar spares company selling brand new crated 2000cc Ford Zetec ( black top )engines complete with clutch,flywheel,inlet and exhaust manifolds , injectors , coil and leads etc for £860 . They gave 130 bhp but with a new £350 induction setup and Emerald ECU it was up to 160 BHP - ideal for a lotus 7 , Anglia or Escort .

[2052NV 24]

Awesome project!!! have you got the engine yet?

[rallyeash 155]

Awesome project!!! have you got the engine yet?

Should have today.

 

Found a 60k Ctr which I'm having the engine, box, gearstick, cables and driveshafts.

[allye 530 3 Cars]

i know from looking at s2000 engines and gear boxes these motors are not cheap!

[rallyeash 155]

There not. Gti6 engines can be had for £200 running, simple conversion and 170hp.

 

A K20 civic engine and box is £1200 minimum unless you want very high mileage. £700 for a S60 DTA , then bodies and a loom to run it.

 

The F20 S2000 engine spins anti clockwise so it would need fitting the other way around with inlet at the rear and much more work. I'm not sure what box you could fit onto it, the B series and H series engine spin anti clockwise too but I want to use the K20 lump.

 

The K20 is not a million miles off the Peugeot engine in its configuration and I feel much easier to work with than having the box on the drivers and engine on the near side.

 

Gears are easy to sort because it's cable shift so no linkage to worry about. Cooling it isn't going to be very hard as I'll just plumb into a 205 or 309 rad. Wiring and injection side will be simple with bodies and standalone. I can use the original loom for the creaking and charging side of things, add a couple of gauges to monitor coolant and water.

Edited December 8, 2014 by rallyeash

[hudson 10]

My friend is just fitting this engine to a 205 and tbh it's quite a straight forward Job he has cut out the tunnel to allow better clearance for the exhaust and used the standard type r radiator the top engine mounting he has grafted the complete type r item from the donor car to the inner wing and I think used the gearbox one also he is running on standard injection system and adding Hondata who he has been led to believe can alter the v tech and give around 250 hp depending where your located in sure he would let you take a look the next step for him is the drive shafts ect I think he is trying to get custom hybrid shaft hubs to utilise pug hubs with type r shafts as the wheel base is wider on the Honda

[rallyeash 155]

Have purchased my engine, box, shafts, gearstick and gear cables today.

 

60K premier CTR with side/rear impact being the donor. Should see it within a week.

 

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Moving quick this!

[rallyeash 155]

No point taking ages is there! Want it on the road shortly.

 

Have set aside the money for bodies. However not sure what route to go down.

[Rams_gti6 12 1 Cars]

Supercharge it!

[camgti 56]

Ash, if it worth me mentioning.

 

I have a mate with a CTR. He has the Hondata the above gent is talking about. On standard induction and an aftermarket exhaust hes running 195hp atw. Which is pretty epic for out of the box performance. I dont believe the bodies will add that much power unless your adding cams etc etc and may well be too much $ for little gain if that makes any sense? Ive also read that with more cam etc they need a little fettling to be safe. I believe Sandy can comment on this further. FWIW The 'move the vtech' thing is silly and not what its about, im sure you know this. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I drive the car regurlary and can say that it does not hang about! Stretching out 2nd gear gets you locked up on almost any street! (Well, here in the nanny state we call Australia!)

 

Really interested to see you get into this. Something Ive wanted to do for a while. Engines here are 3500$+. I, like you, have my own business and funds are tight right now. Next year is lokking good!

 

Keep at it!

 

Cam

[BERTMAN 40 1 Cars]

This is epic. Hurry up with it haha.

[rallyeash 155]

Ash, if it worth me mentioning.

I have a mate with a CTR. He has the Hondata the above gent is talking about. On standard induction and an aftermarket exhaust hes running 195hp atw. Which is pretty epic for out of the box performance. I dont believe the bodies will add that much power unless your adding cams etc etc and may well be too much $ for little gain if that makes any sense? Ive also read that with more cam etc they need a little fettling to be safe. I believe Sandy can comment on this further. FWIW The 'move the vtech' thing is silly and not what its about, im sure you know this. Just my 2 cents worth.

I drive the car regurlary and can say that it does not hang about! Stretching out 2nd gear gets you locked up on almost any street! (Well, here in the nanny state we call Australia!)

Really interested to see you get into this. Something Ive wanted to do for a while. Engines here are 3500$+. I, like you, have my own business and funds are tight right now. Next year is lokking good!

Keep at it!

Cam

I won't be changing the cams, will just be using bodies, most likely GSXR ones on a proper inlet manifold. It keeps the wiring, injection side and all that simple and makes the conversion much easier than trying to make the honda loom work.

Headline figures may not be much more but it should see some good gains across the range and the noise!

 

There seems to be some large hp claims for mildly fettled Hondas. I haven't made up my mind if it's the 'jap car owner' that inflates the hp and is all about going around the country to find the most inflated rolling road or the K20 lump actually is very respondent to berthing mods.

 

Being 197 standard the magical figure seems to be 225-230hp with a filter and exhaust which isn't far from your 195 ATW.

In my opinion it seems a little much for changing a filter, exhaust and adding a generic map ecu. These are arguably one of the best 4 cylinder production engines made and I don't see Honda ruining that by adding a restrictive filter, exhaust and a ecu.

 

I'll be running a decent 2.25 system, bodies and standalone and anything north of 220hp is great. I'll draw my own conclusions to when it's running and mapped!

[hudson 10]

You'd be surprised how cheap jenvey s are in the real world if you can find a compassionate dealer I got mine and they were less than half the money quoted including the linkage mind it's like the piston and rod quotes I see on here these lads are making some serious cash when you have an engine built doubling at least up on most parts don't believe the hype piston and rods combinations are half price than most quotes I read on here unless custom even then they aren't as dear as one may be led to believe a bit like a lot of dyno figures I know of engines bought new with so called figures claimed get on a boat to Ireland to find a great deal of them have jumped over board on the way there

[welshpug 1,657]

speak to martin fox at mef motorsport for jenveys, get the direct pull type so you dont need the £80 linkage kit, just make a cable end stop for the outer.

[hudson 10]

Try Dta themselves they get a massive discount off jenvey or even raceline stuff to found a lot cheaper than Foxy granted there in business to make money but in this day and age why have your pants pulled down

[allye 530 3 Cars]

you want to careful ash, might end up being quicker than your rallye, even more so with that 309 handling!

[camgti 56]

Ash, the Hondata is not a Genieic map at all. It enables full tuning of the ecu for 'your' motor. Its not a chip or flash tune.

 

I agree that the Jap guys like the HP figures and claims etc. the car was dyno tunes at a place called Insight Motorsport here in Sydney. He tunes most international race cars that areive in australia to race. Hea booked out for months and months. IMO a very good and honest figure.

 

Anyway its your motor to do with it what you will. I dont think you will see the gains your expecting with just adding TBs to that motor. Have you driven a K20a before?

 

It will be much wuicker than the 205 thats for sure.

 

Cam

 

I won't be changing the cams, will just be using bodies, most likely GSXR ones on a proper inlet manifold. It keeps the wiring, injection side and all that simple and makes the conversion much easier than trying to make the honda loom work.

Headline figures may not be much more but it should see some good gains across the range and the noise!

 

There seems to be some large hp claims for mildly fettled Hondas. I haven't made up my mind if it's the 'jap car owner' that inflates the hp and is all about going around the country to find the most inflated rolling road or the K20 lump actually is very respondent to berthing mods.

 

Being 197 standard the magical figure seems to be 225-230hp with a filter and exhaust which isn't far from your 195 ATW.

In my opinion it seems a little much for changing a filter, exhaust and adding a generic map ecu. These are arguably one of the best 4 cylinder production engines made and I don't see Honda ruining that by adding a restrictive filter, exhaust and a ecu.

 

I'll be running a decent 2.25 system, bodies and standalone and anything north of 220hp is great. I'll draw my own conclusions to when it's running and mapped!

[Sandy 191]

I've mapped Hondata and I'm afraid it was not as easy to refine as DTA and very long winded to map. Even the crappiest systems can usually serve a decent top line eventually, but it's how well all the other aspects of mapping can be resolved in the time available are what makes the difference and that's what makes DTA so preferable for me. The only real advantage of Hondata is the plug and play aspect for standard cars, but for conversions like this, the OE loom is needlessly weighty and cumbersome.

 

S2000 is clockwise BTW! The cams counter rotate though, being drive by chain then single gear. It's a sort of halfway house engine between the old F20/H22 and the K20.

[rallyeash 155]

you want to careful ash, might end up being quicker than your rallye, even more so with that 309 handling!

Haha nah! The 205 is lighter, more power, more torque, better suspension, diff, tyres etc so the 309 wouldn't even compare out on a circuit. I don't recon there will be too much in it straight line speed but I'd still put money on my rallye to win.

[rallyeash 155]

 

S2000 is clockwise BTW! The cams counter rotate though, being drive by chain then single gear. It's a sort of halfway house engine between the old F20/H22 and the K20.

Ah I see, I didn't research them to be fair that much. I'm sticking with K20 but what box would work on a F series?

[camgti 56]

Thanks for clearing that up sandy.

 

I didnt even think about the fact the engine would be in a pug and therefore require a new loom anyway!

 

Cam

[Sandy 191]

Ah I see, I didn't research them to be fair that much. I'm sticking with K20 but what box would work on a F series?

 

There isn't a simple FWD box fit, in the broader sense, the older H series anti clock engine as I used in mine (the original 309 Type-R you robbing ****!) would be a better route than the S2000 engine converted. The K20 and newer box have about equal merit and better economy.

[rallyeash 155]

Hehe should never of broke it!

[Sandy 191]

No, truly the only car I regret getting rid of.