Vts Box - What Bits?

[JeffR 51]

Regarding Item 1, be aware that the roll pin hole is not in the centre of the shaft so swapping the straight selector for the 'S' arm may not be quite that simple. If you're lucky, the straight arm may fit without a problem. If it doesn't you can remove the shaft (13) from the VTS box & fit it into the one you're using.

 

Don't worry about the shaft falling into the gearbox-it won't. The 'O' ring will prevent that happening. What you have to ensure is that before fitting the other arm that the fork part of the selector which goes into the box is in the central position. It's easy to figure out by pushing down the shaft and turning it one way or the other and lifting it until you find the central position.

 

Edited September 20, 2014 by JeffR

[2052006 10]

yep, use the 205 washer.

 

 

Cheers.

 

I have been using the larger VTS washer since I stuck the engine in several years ago. I don't think it was a problem, but I do remember thinking that the washer seemed very close to the chassis leg, though I don't think it hit it, during engine movement.

 

I'll swap to the 205 one all the same though, whilst the engine's out.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I swapped the 205 mount pin over today, added a little heat to both boxes and they came off fairly easy, but a bit off an odd hex on them.

 

I also swapped over the gear selector, by knocking out a little double roll pin thing.

 

Judging by lifting, the VTS box seems a good bit heavier, it also looks a good bit physically bigger/bulkier.

 

WP, I took a few pics of the clutch arm on the BE3 box, it seems near identical to that on the BE4 box. I also tried to fit what I think is a new BE3 push release bearing, but it doesn't seem to fit.

 

So I'm guessing my BE3 box has been set up for Pull type?

 

I'll post pics tomorrow.

Edited September 21, 2014 by dobboy

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

BE3 Box to the left, VTS box to the right

 

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Bear in mind i don't know what i'm doing here.

 

But this is (what i believe to be) a new BE3 push bearing, sat in my VTS box, and it doesn't fit/click in or anything. (The fork on the BE3 box is more or less identical).

 

Therefore am i correct in saying that my BE3 box is set up for "Pull" and that i need a fork/shaft and clutch cable bracket(s) from a BE3 "Push" box?

 

And, is any of the parts on my BE1 "push" box of any use?

 

Edited September 22, 2014 by dobboy

[welshpug 1,661]

Push clutch does not use a cable bracket.

 

the fingers on that fork/shaft look like pull type, hard to tell from the picture.

 

if I have time and remember this evenkng I will get pictures of my spares.

 

if you have a be1 with a clutch shaft in it then its an mi16 push type clutch

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks WP, if you could that would be good, and even better if you have what i need for sale?

 

From memory, my BE1 box had a near identical set up to these boxes, (however the bearing pictured didn't fit the fork either, (the bearing pictured came with an Mi16 clutch plate).

 

I thought the box changeover was going to be straight forward for me.

 

(Bet you're looking forward to me changing my steering rack!)

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, this is the VTS fork which is the same as my BE3 fork, can you tell from the pic what i have?

 

 

[welshpug 1,661]

Yep, just about, you can see the fingers curve away from the pressure plate, they are pull type, push clutch which sounds like what your mi16 be1 box will be is the opposite shape.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks WP, i expected it to be as you said, as it would tie in with pull type clutch that came with the my first engine.

 

Do you think you have the bit's i need for sale?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

This must be a BE3 "push" bearing then? which is why it didn't fit my BE1 box, or the BE3 (pull) or BE4 (push)?

 

[welshpug 1,661]

Thats a standard fork type be push bearing yes, its not specific to be3, its the same for any cross shaft type be1 3 and 4 push clutch.

 

if it didnt fit the other boxes they must have pull type forks on the cross shaft.

I do have the bits spare I believe, might get chance to check them tomorrow

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Yeah please look WP, you're holding the job up! lol

 

That bearing in the pic doesn't fit a BE1 box, it's similar but different. The BE1 box has two little metal springy clips pointing back into the bearing that grip the fork.

 

I had another look at the fork on the BE3, when i turn it so the forks would be parallel with the flywheel, they slightly point backwards away from it, if that makes sense.

Edited September 23, 2014 by dobboy

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Any joy WP?

[welshpug 1,661]

right then, Pichers!!!

 

 

Xsara VTS BE3/4 Pull Clutch arm and bracket, note arm has been bent up to aid gearbox removal due to seized pin.

20140924_152858 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr


Pull clutch fork finger profile.

20140924_152950 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr



Early BE cross shaft type clutch fork, Yellow bushes, longer fingers.

20140924_153012 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

push type BE top Clutch Arm.

 

20140924_164425 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

Later BE Push type fingers, shorter type with White bushes.

20140924_153101 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

Push type shaft pivot BE Clutch Fork bearing.

20140924_153115 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

 

BE1 Ball pivot type fork release bearing.

 

20140924_164322 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

BE1 Ball pivot type fork and release bearing.

20140924_164407 by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Great stuff WP, thanks a lot for taking the time to do this.

 

Pin this info someone.

 

 

My 88 BE1 box has the ball pivot type for/bearing.

 

 

Can you part with a later push fork?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, have you got the clutch bits I need for sale?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Got these delivered today (2115.25)

 

 

Looking at service box, this is the later type of fork, and the later bushes (white) go with it in the 205 box.

 

I'm almost certain the bushes in the VTS box are white, and if they don't need replaced i would prefer to use them if possible.

 

Are the VTS box white bushes the same as the 205 white bushes?

 

If so, is it just a matter of feeling the amount of play back and forth between the shaft and bush(es) to check their wear?

 

TIA

 

Also, does anyone happen to have a good pic of a BE3 pedal so i can see exactly how a BE1 pedal should be modified so that a BE3 clutch cable can be used?

 

TIA

[dcc 855]

Just fit new ones! new shaft, I certainly wouldn't use old bushes!

 

you need 2x 217556, 1x 217520, 1x217515 - you'll likely have to buy packs of 2 or 5 or even 10.

 

not entirely sure of the difference between 2175 21 and 217520 though. maybe somebody can clear that up?

 

I have 8x 217556 spare, which I could send 2 your way for cost of postage.

 

be3 - notice the 'hook'

 

 

I have a be3 pedal I can do you for £25 posted.

Edited October 13, 2014 by dcc

[dcc 855]

oh you're likely to need 210535 too

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Cheers DCC, but every penny is a prisoner at the moment. Gonna mod my pedal to suit, looks like just elongating the hole on it, or possibly putting a bigger hole on it then elongating it.

 

I know what your saying about the bushes but I've spent plenty and having to spend more elsewhere on the car, so I'm trying to keeps costs down.

If it needs bushes i'll change them, but if it doesn't I won't.

 

Thanks for the pic btw, it will do the trick.

[dcc 855]

you're really looking at £4 or so for each bush!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

If i need them I'll see how many pug want me to buy.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Dan, the minimum orders are

 

217520 - 4

217521 - 5

217515 - 2

217556 - 10

 

which works out about £40, for something i only need a tenners worth of.

 

So, if you don't mind i'll take a couple of 217556's off your hands, £5 delivered sound ok?

[S@m 156]

I'll do you the two clutch arm bushes for £6 delivered because i keep them in stock so no quantity rates. That is a single 217520 and a single 217521.

 

You've no need for 217515 ....at least i've never changed them, and i've never fitted 217556 or even seen them either, according to servicebox they were only fitted after a certain RP number.

 

 

EDIT - Where i work has been a Citroen dealer since the early 90s and whilst he have changed, and keep in stock, the clutch arm bushes. We have never fitted, or even ordered in to stock either 217515 or 217556, just FYI.

 

EDIT #2 - I am with DCC on also changing 210535 though, something i'd usually change as a matter of course whilst the box is off the car - unless i knew it had already been done.

Edited October 14, 2014 by S@m