Vts Box - What Bits?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Wondering if someone can have a quick squint for me.

 

Going to be putting this 2000 VTS box in my car (GTI6 engine with BE1 box), but also have a BE3 box to rob bits off.

 

 

I've read all the threads, but some of the pics were too small for me to see clear enough what i need to do.

 

I've labelled the parts of the VTS box, (which incidently has both BE4 and BE3 stamped on it.)

 

Item 1, what's this part called? do i need to change it over to the one used on a BE3 box?, and is this the part that i need to watch that the shaft doesn't slip into the box?

 

Item 2. What's it called? I don't think i need to do anything with this part.

 

Item 3. I need to swap this part, and the shaft/fork that runs through the Gbox and i should also renew the bushes. The bushes on the VTS box are white, is the new bushes colour determined by these ones or the ones that are coming from the donor BE box (which i think are yellow in my case)?

 

Item 4. Replace with what's on my BE3 box.

 

Item 5. Don't need to do anything.

 

Item 6. Is this where i'll eventually fill the box with oil?

 

I then need to swap the VTS diff crown wheel from this VTS box, on to the diff currently in my car (BE1), and generally can use all my casing/speed sensor/bearings etc etc etc, and best I renew driveshaft seals.

 

 

TIA

[S@m 156]

Items one and two are the selector arms, you don't need to touch #2 beyond prying off the small part of linkage i can see still attached to it, but #1 either needs to be swapped for the 205 one (with the risk of the shaft dropping down into the box) or you can just cut and weld the one on there so it mimics the 205 one (which is what i did), just involves making it straight rather than S shaped.

 

With regards to #3 and #4, i just left the xsara/306 ones on there, but i always use the corresponding xsara/306 pull clutch and a slightly modified cable, whereas i believe you are using a push clutch, so i cannot help here.

 

You need to swap #5 for the 205 one, they are usually hard to undo, i recommend loctiting the 205 one when you fit it.

 

#6 is the filler/breather, having come from a be1 box you will recognise this as the old reverse cable fitting which is obviously no longer needed with a be3.

 

With regards to the clutch arm bushes, they are dictated by the arm you are using. So if you are using the 205 clutch arm/shaft, then use the 205 bushes.

 

EDIT - one last point, it might be worth getting some new diff>crown wheel bolts ready before you start because they are known for stripping , 8 x part number 9800266980

Edited September 19, 2014 by S@m

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Also, here's the donor BE3 box, (it has evidence of somebody messing about with it).

 

 

Does the fork/shaft look suitable for me to use a BE3 Push bearing?, (so i can re-use my clutch plate on my current BE1 push arrangement?)

 

And, finally, from memory the little bearing has to open ended wings, should the bearing be fitted to the fork so that the closed end of of the wings are nearest the clutch plate? (open ends pointing away from engine)

 

TIA

[Anthony 1,003]

With regards to the clutch arm bushes, they are dictated by the arm you are using. So if you are using the 205 clutch arm/shaft, then use the 205 bushes.

Sort of - the bushes are determined by the age of the clutch fork as there's two different forks with two different length "fingers", and hence the bushes are offset - earlier forks use yellow bushes and later ones use white. Changeover was around 1991-92 from memory so you'll find both types used on 205 'boxes depending on age.

 

There's a thread on here started by "Philfingers" IIRC that has the measurements of the two forks and which bushes correspond with each.

[S@m 156]

Indeed, I wasn't 100% clear there, i realise there was a changeover in the bushes in the 205 production run but still, it holds true that the ones to use are dictated by the choice of clutch arm.

Although its not as simple as 205 bushes being one type and xsara/306 the other as i implied.

[S@m 156]

Personally, i'd also swap out the clutch bearing sleeve while you have the box off , part # 210535.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Sam,

 

Regarding Item 1, i'd prefer to swap rather than weld as i don't have a welder and it means getting someone else involved.

 

I use a fancy type of wire at work, which is very thin and super strong. I was thinking i could run it through the split pin, then chap the split pin out, lift the bracket off a bit, twist a binding wire tightly onto the shaft underneath the bracket, then remove the wire and bracket. Then more or less do the reverse to refit the 205 one.

 

Does that sound feasable?

 

 

If it fell in to the box, i have one of they magnetic telescopic aerial things, would that be sufficient to pull it back out?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

so the BE3 box above has yellow bushes, therefore the bushes i buy are yellow.

 

Does the arm look as it should for a BE3 push set up?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Anthony

[welshpug 1,661]

Clutch shaft looks correct for push type, check the arm on the top, what was it off?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Cheers WP, it came off a 205 and was delivered with my first engine.

 

I remember asking you before what i had and IIRC you thought a picture of the engine showed a knacked pull clutch on it, with this box with pull type arrangement.

 

I'll try dig out the thread.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, Post 25

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=151830&page=2

 

 

am i right in saying these could never have been installed together? clutch is pull, fork/shaft is push?

[welshpug 1,661]

Looks like it but you never pictured the arm, these are also different on pull/push clutches.

[Anthony 1,003]

With a bit of grinding to stop it fouling on the casing you can use a pull arm on a push setup just fine

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks

 

how do people normally stop this shaft on the selector arm falling in?

 

here's a pic i found on my phone of BE3 (1.6) box i intend to rob from.....

 

 

 

 

Does it look as though i've got what i need? (BE3 Push)

 

TIA

[welshpug 1,661]

The cable holder on the pull arm is the wrong angle to be used as a push type.

 

still no picture of it

 

 

Yes the selector arm is the correct type for a 205, to stop it dropping just stick something through the hole

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I'll get a pic tomorrow.

 

You need to see a pic of the brackets that hold the clutch cable?

 

Just thinking, what a chube i am, I've got the CJ in my garage with a BE3 in it!

[Anthony 1,003]

CJ will have an MA 'box won't it?

[welshpug 1,661]

yes, on a TU engine.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

lol, FFS someone just shoot me!

 

I'll take a few snaps tomorrow of the BE3 box.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Found this image on my phone. Can you tell from this?

 

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think i've sussed it.

 

As the bracket on the end of cable on the VTS box is fixed, it's a Pull type clutch.

 

And as the bracket/end of cable (on the pic above) of my BE3 moves, (and that there is a bit further away from the rad to fix the cable in place), it's a Pull type?

[2052006 10]

With regard to number 5: I know the "pin" (the threaded bit) needs to be changed to the 205 one, but what about the "washer" (the round bit that sits on the actual box). Iirc, the VTS one is bigger, the 205 smaller. Which should be used? Think I've been using the original VTS one, with seemingly no ill effects, but anyone have any differing advice?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

With regard to number 5: I know the "pin" (the threaded bit) needs to be changed to the 205 one, but what about the "washer" (the round bit that sits on the actual box). Iirc, the VTS one is bigger, the 205 smaller. Which should be used? Think I've been using the original VTS one, with seemingly no ill effects, but anyone have any differing advice?

 

Surely, the washer somehow suits the 205 mount, therefore should probably be 205, (but I wouldn't think it would matter from what i remember of that particular mount)

[welshpug 1,661]

yep, use the 205 washer.

 

hard to tell from that angle which arm you have.