Cheapest Reliable Way To 230-240Bhp Xu10J4Rs

[blandy 29]

Firstly please excuse the tittle wording as i know cheap isnt the best word but as some of you may have seen from my other post im looking to build a engine for mainly track use. I have 2 gti6 engines in my possession one suppothe sedly with a petert inlet cam which was running so is being cleaned up and going in my 205 to begin with but i want to build my 2nd engine into something a little more interesting.

 

Ive been reading through a few 2.1-2.2 builds and also with the posibility of having the original gti6 pistons pocketed but quickly realised that i will not achieve the results with that option.

 

Basically i do have a few questions if people can help/advise a spec list or the way the route they would take.

 

1 question is what is the limit cam wise on hydraulic lifters as im guessing that will save a fair amount of cash/time over going to solids.

 

Also with regards to bearings etc where to people get there supplies, Peugeot?

Edited August 26, 2014 by blandy

[Anthony 1,003]

Does it need to remain N/A? Purchasing a used (or probably even new) Lynx supercharger setup is probably the cheapest and most straightforward way for that sort of power on a GTi-6 engine.

[petert 586]

Have you read DrSarty's build?

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=74000&hl=Stage

 

He did his mostly with capacity. He used one of my cams, but it was significantly bigger than the GTi6 version you have. With some bigger cams, increased capacity and TB's, it will make 230-240hp easily. But so will a Lynx supercharger.

 

A track engine should have solid lifters if you're going to ring it's neck.

[blandy 29]

yeah supercharger is the easy option but i would like to stay n/a

 

 

Ill take a read through that thread thanks.

 

 

Sorry to ask a silly question but are the hydraulic lifters unreliable at that power or just high rpms etc as i thought it was a question of running say 8k + rpm needing the solids?

Edited August 26, 2014 by blandy

[welshpug 1,657]

Its the rpm and ramp angles required on the cams when trying to get that much air in is the issue.

 

£1400 will get you a decent set of rods and pistons suitable for a 2.2 build.

[dcc 855]

not as easy as that tho mei -

 

ecu

loom

bodies

manifold

headwork

all the other bits and bobs for the build...

 

you're looking at near to 5k all in for NA.

[dcc 855]

if you have a 200bhp engine , but make it 25% easier for the engine to turn the wheels, maybe its a cheaper way of chasing what you're after (comparing a 1.9 gti gearbox to a 4.93 final drive converted box for example ) I know it isnt an exact science, but there is method to the magners

[blandy 29]

yeah thoughts are to run jenveys again with either omex or dta. Gearbox will be the box i got from you at pugfest

 

 

Could you recomend some off the shelf cams that are suitable for hydraulic lifters that could meet the target? Or is that likely to be custom grinds?

[dcc 855]

The best people ask those questions would be the cam designers / manufacturers really, unless you can find a friendly engine builder willing to give you their time foc! but some cams will give you mid range some will give you top end, then you can manage that with exhaust primary lengths and inlet tracts... its not an exact science

 

That gearbox will be a barrell of laughs if you get some funky gear sets for it! from memory a gti6 3rd and 4th should fit for very close ratios

[blandy 29]

yeah just trying to see tried and tested from what others have done ie Is there a off the shelf cam for hydraulic lifters that will be suited for a track day car or do i need to get into solids etc. Ill keep browsing the for sale to see what turns up as again thats best way to keep costs down

[rallyeash 155]

I'm running 109 cat cams with hydraulics.

Revs to 7800.

[blandy 29]

Lovely thanks I'll take a look on cat cams website

[petert 586]

The other thing to consider is whether you actually "need" 230-240hp, or whether you want the car to be quick around the track. A well set up car with only 180hp is going to be quicker than a poorly setup car with 230hp. Until you've got an LSD, low ratio diff, cage, tyres and well sorted suspension, it's pointless spending heaps on the engine.

Edited August 28, 2014 by petert

[blandy 29]

The car will have all of the above before it sees a track it will have the standard engine to begin with while i build this one. The engine is something i want to build as its something i want to learn but the chasis is the most important part for me

[Mad Scientist 106]

I like your thread title.

 

Cheap

Reliable

Powerful

 

You can only choose two of these at a time.

[rallyeash 155]

Closest you'll get to the three is a lynx charger kit.

Under 2k and 240+HP.

 

But I'd stay NA...

[blandy 29]

Lol yeah I know but as said the word "cheap" is wrong really it's probably better to say "cost effective" I know a charger is easiest way to easy power and tbh if one came up dirt cheap it would be hard to ignor it but I would like to go with bodies and as I'm hoping to do all the main work myself over time again keeping costs down but I did have a 306 rallye whereI had jenveys and ecu etc which was nice but seemed a waste without delving into the engine so hence why I want to look into it a bit more this time round

[Mad Scientist 106]

Me too.

 

'Charging is cheating.

[welshpug 1,657]

Shame the THP engines are a lot of work to get in and arent as well regarded

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

THP? I'll assume it's not this definition: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=THP

Toyota Honda ...?

[Anthony 1,003]

I assume he means the THP engines from the newer 1.6 Turbo PSA cars (and Mini's IIRC)

[welshpug 1,657]

No, the ep6dth/c 1.6 turbo direct injection peugeot/bmw engine.

[blandy 29]

How to people work out the compression ratio needed when building a n/a engine. I'm still reading up on pretty much every thread on here and gti6oc regarding bigger n/a builds but noticed a couple had engines with 2 higher compression ratio's

[welshpug 1,657]

Ask an engine builder

[rallyeash 155]

Get the spec right and it'll be ok. My mates engine that I broke for spares had the wrong pistons for the build.

 

My bottom end is a 2k build roughly

 

87mm Pistons and Rods (sandy spec) £1200

88mm TD crank £100

Decent block and machining £200

Then everything to build it up and labour.

Equals a 2088cc lump, then I went dry sump and spent that nearly again!