Bunging The Expansion Tank

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Would a failed HG gasket show up on a compression test?

[jackherer 543]

If it's spitting out coolant under pressure your best bet is a sniffer test to see if there are combustion gasses in the header tank.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Jack, i read another thread and it mentioned "Flui"?.... will need to try find out what that is.

 

Correct me somebody if i'm wrong, but if the Tstat didn't open (or didn't open fully) then the water can't flow to be cooled. If it can't flow then it heats up, as it heats up the pressure increases through liquid expansion, and as it needs somewhere to go it exhausts itself through my bottle cap?

 

And if for some reason a cylinder was connected to a water way through HG failure, then my water bottle would likely be spitting out coolant even when the waters cold?

 

BTW i've no white smoke or anything else untoward, and the car runs fine.

[jackherer 543]

You can test the thermostat by putting it in a pan of water with a thermometer and heating it up to check it opens at the right temperature.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Jack, i'll just replace it, i don't imagine they cost much and it will be less hassle to replace it.

 

and found a guide which helps

 

http://www.pugaddicts.co.uk/2012/12/guide-peugeot-306-gti-6-thermostat.html

[blandy 29]

Sounds very similar to my 306 ran absolutelty fine just used to expel a lot of coolant out of the overflow and got worse on a track day. I made a makeshift overflow bottle as the overflow tube sat in front of the offside wheel. With the bottle I was able to measure it and in the end it was chucking out around 1litre after 5 laps around abingdon. A sniffer test came up with headgasket failure at no4.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Sounds very similar to my 306 ran absolutelty fine just used to expel a lot of coolant out of the overflow and got worse on a track day. I made a makeshift overflow bottle as the overflow tube sat in front of the offside wheel. With the bottle I was able to measure it and in the end it was chucking out around 1litre after 5 laps around abingdon. A sniffer test came up with headgasket failure at no4.

 

Blandy, WP mentiones No4 also. (fingers in the ears) It's not what i want to hear.

 

I'm not a mechanic, but i'm gonna rule out this Tstat first..... from what i can see it's similar symptoms.

 

Surely if the HG was gone, the water would get squeezed out the expansion overflow almost straight away after start up (on compression cycle), or i'd have white smoke with it burning water and showing up on the exhaust cycle?

 

Thinking back to when i first installed this engine in winter there was a lot of white smoke, maybe the current climate wouldn't show it up.

[blandy 29]

Mine didn't on idle etc I only found it when using it more I.e on my track day it was filling up my bottle after 5 laps yet I drove it 30mins home and there was next to nothing in there. Is yours getting hot? I only noticed mine get warm on a long journey and kept putting it down to air locks etc and me not bleeding properly but in the end I got a sniffer tester on eBay for around £30 and that confirmed it.

Hopefully yours won't follow suit but sounds similar

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Blandly, it got worse yesterday when I changed the cap to 1.3 bar. Car heats up a lot quicker since cap got fitted, but I've never let it over heat.

 

Just in from looking at it, the bottle was empty and it took 1.5L

 

With lid off I squeezed all pipes and could see water level rise in bottle

 

Ran it for a few mins and could see water rise.

 

I thought I'd maybe see bubbles in the bottle if it was HG? But nothing.

 

However, I do notice my nice clean water is now dirty.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I take this is the test kit?

 

http://www.uktools.com/block-tester-p-12508.html

 

Is it even worth buying one?

 

I'm resigned to the fact that it is the HG, unless anyone has any other ideas?

[blandy 29]

Yeah that's similar to mine. I'd say its worth it as you never know for sure until you test it and would be awful to remove head and it's not that etc it does sound just like mine so that's where my money is but I'd still test it to be 100%

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Thanks Blandy, I had intended taking engine out soon to change Gbox, servo, and steering rack, which I could handle.

 

Now I'm wondering if I should just change engine, as by the time skimming etc is done I don't think there would be much difference in cost, and I wouldn't be sure what I was doing.

[welshpug 1,657]

with the age of them now they will all need a gasket soon.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, is gasket deterioration age or mileage related?

[welshpug 1,657]

age and how well its been looked after, nothing to do with mileage, otherwise Miles's phase1 Diablo gti6 would have had a few by now, its marching on towards 280k last I heard.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I cannot believe this.

 

Tonight, after it been parked up for a couple of weeks i thought i would go out and give it a start, and maybe take it a wee spin.

 

I checked the water put on the new 1.3 bar cap again, and thought, this cap just doesn't feel as loose/easy to fit as my old cap did (which i had binned).

 

First click, and it fired up and said "take me a spin".

 

I lay down and watched underneath, and after about 30 seconds i could see water spitting out the cap overflow pipe.

 

So, switched it off, and thought that will be that then.

 

Later, i remembered whilst clearing out my industrial unit today to make way for the car to come to get the engine replaced, i had came accross a 1bar cap that i had taken from a 205 at a scrappies a while ago.

 

After speaking to Rich today (who sells the flywheels), he said that the 16V's aren't bad for gaskets going.

 

I remembered that when i 100% bunged the spare pipe on the bottle, and fitted the 1.3 bar cap, it was really then that the loosing water was increased.

 

So, desperate for a wee blast and willing to try anything I nipped down to unit, grabbed the old 1bar cap, topped the water up a touch, and (very easily) fitted it the cap.

 

Started it up again, and lay for a good few minutes and watched expecting to see water

 

Nothing.

 

Took it a quick civilised spin, and the temp sat quite comfortably at about 1/4

 

brought it home, let it sit, and took temp up further, still no water.

 

Temp up further again, fans running no water.

 

I also checked the top pipe, and could fairly easily squeeze it.

 

WTF is going on?!

 

When i bought the 1.3bar cap at the motor factors, i distinctly don't recall telling him it was for a 205, (as per my white expansion bottle), and not knowing any better i thought these caps were a standard size with the ratings varying only.

 

The 1.3bar cap looks very similar to the 1 bar on the outside, but it's slightly different underneath.... (the motor is still hot. i'll get a better compariison of the caps tomorrow.)

 

Pics of the 1.3 bar cap:

 

 

 

 

So, with the 205 1bar cap fitted i went out, and took it calmly, gave some yeehaa, etc etc, for an hour or so and the temp guage bounced up and down between 1/4 and 3/4 (where my fans come in), and generally behaved as you would expect.

 

 

Don't laugh, (and i don't know whether to be happy or not as i've bought a new engine to replace this engine), but i think my engine/HG might actually be ok!

 

So, does anyone know anything about caps? are they car specific?

 

The 1.3 bar cap say's "G.910" on it..... what does this number mean?

 

I've got a suspicion that the diameter of the piston part of the cap is a smidgen too large for the neck of my bottle, and doesn't seal/let's water through.....hence the water pi55es out the overflow pipe.

 

 

[blandy 29]

Never seen it before with the caps but if it's not dealing correctly then it definitely could explain whats happening as if the caps not holding it in it will just take the easiest path and go strait out the overflow. It needs to build pressure against the cap to iirc somewhere like 0.7bar in a normal operating rs engine.

 

Another good test to try now would be a pressure test just to see the pressure it does get to but by sound of it it could be fine if it's not going past the 1bar cap

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Blandy, the info on caps on the net is minimal, the slight difference in my old and new is enough to let it pass water.

 

How would I go about doing a pressure test?

 

Fortunately! I've never been out and killed the engine since I thought the HG was duff.

[2052006 10]

Sounds familiar. This was over 5 years ago now, but when I did my gti6 conversion, at first I used the VTS reservoir cap (I was using a VTS engine) on the phase 2 205 reservoir. I also lost coolant. Switched back to the original 205 cap and no more problems.

[blandy 29]

You would need a pressure test kit. Basically you fit a cap onto the reservoir and then a gauge connects to the cap which when you run it up it seals the tank and therefore gives a pressure reading of what it's running at, but to be honest I'd just carry on with the 205 cap on and just keep a eye on it now as it's perfectly feasible that it was the problem all along.

[welshpug 1,657]

many of the later caps don't fit properly without being modified, though the one pictured is only 13 lbs which is less than 1 bar, and hasn't any of the tangs that make the later caps incompatible.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, it is meant to be a 1,3 bar cap.

 

I just used an online converter and as you say, it's less than 1bar @ only 0.89 bar

 

It's been an expensive cap!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Here's the two caps compared, 205 one on left.

 

I realise that the supposidly 1.3 bar cap is less than 1bar, but i still think that even at less than 1bar it should have held the water a little bit longer than it did.

 

Does anyone see anything obviously not right about the fitment of the new one?

 

 

 

I think First Lines FRC73 might be the one for Ph1/1.5 tanks.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Just back from where i got the supposedly 1.3 bar cap.

 

They checked and it was an FRC73 that i was given. However, when i pointed out the "13lbs" stamped on it, and told him that the Frontline FRC73 ones i had seen had "20psi" stamped on them, he phoned another branch and got them to open up a box and look at another one.

 

The other branch's FRC73 had "20psi" stamped on it, and it looks as though my one has been packaged wrong! lol

 

what's the chances........

[Anthony 1,003]

That's unfortunate, although tbh the "13lbs" on the cap should have set alarm bells ringing!

 

That said, I'm surprised that it was chucking out coolant after 30 seconds from a cold start even with a defective/incorrect cap and I would still be a little dubious of the headgasket. After only 30 seconds running it should still be cold and not generating any pressure in the cooling system, suggesting that the air/pressure in the system is coming from elsewhere...