1,9 Gti With Hot Start Problems

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

Hi.I have a 1990 1,9 GTI CAT equipped 205, and I am having trouble starting it when it is up to running temperatures. It starts right away when it`s cold, even when it has been sitting in the garage for 3-4 weeks. But when it has been driven a while and is up to normal temp. and then stopped, it can sometimes be very difficult to start. The engine turns over fine, but it will not fire. Sometimes it fires slightly, but not enough to actually start.

 

I have changed plugs, plug leads, coil and a used working ignition amp and applyed new thermal paste on the back. I have also cleaned up some of the electrical connections, and the earth on the gearbox and the alu plate.

 

As I have a CAT equpped GTI, I guess I have the Motronic injection system? Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can do to fix this problem?

[welshpug 1,661]

It could be jetronic or motronic.

 

as it specifically happens when warm, but no misfire symptoms, it may be coolant temp sender or lambda.

[DamirGTI 342]

Hot starting issues are usually fuel related problems , so concentrate on fueling system - leaky injectors , fuel press. regulator , fuel pump , sticky fuel pump/injection relay etc.

 

Take a look at the ECU , if it's Motronic 1.3 management it'll have "MOTRONIC" imprint on the ECU cover .. if so , you can pull faulty codes from this system easily on a DIY basis ...

 

D

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

I have the Motronic injection, just went out to check.

 

So then I guess I can get some fault codes read from the ecu? I am a complete novice when it comes to injection systems, so a guide would be very helpfull

And as Welshpug mentioned, it dosent misfire at all when running and idles fine.

[futura 3]

When warm, if you switch it off and straight back on does it fail?

 

When I had leaky injectors, it would fire straight away after turning it off, but if I left it parked say at the supermarket, when I would come back it would probably take around 4 or 5 seconds before firing. Sending the injectors to ultrasonic cleaning fixed the issue.

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

If I leave it for just a few minutes, it usually starts fine. But if I leave it for 20-30 min, it becomes difficult to start. Would make sense if the injectors are leaking, and flooding the engine. Maybe I should try and get my injectors cleaned, and see if that cures the problem. Now I just need to see if there is a place that can ultrasonically clean them.

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

I have an identical problem but mine is a non cat. I had my injectors cleaned last year and the car has been fine until this summer. Not trying to throw a spanner in the works but just saying like. Hope you sort it.

[futura 3]

If I leave it for just a few minutes, it usually starts fine. But if I leave it for 20-30 min, it becomes difficult to start. Would make sense if the injectors are leaking, and flooding the engine. Maybe I should try and get my injectors cleaned, and see if that cures the problem. Now I just need to see if there is a place that can ultrasonically clean them.

I scratched my head many months before fixing this issue, so hopefully it will sort it out for you too.

 

Just google 'injector cleaning', there are companies out there you just post your injectors to and they will send them back to you once they are ready. They will come with a report sheet too.

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

I have found a couple of companies that offer inejctor cleaning, I think I will give it a try and see how it goes. Hopefully it will fix it. Its not easy with these old cars, theres certanly no OBD to get info from, makes it a bit more difficult

 

Thank you for all help, I`ll let you know if it sorts out the problem

[bondyshambles 23 1 Cars]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=106738

 

This is Mad Proffesor. Very quick turn around and a good price.

[DamirGTI 342]

Diagnostic can be done easily on these .. now i haven't tried this by the method of just earthing the diagnostic connector and reading codes via "K" light on a dash/instruments , which is the way most of the people from over here did and prefer that method , rather than that i have built tool for doing self diagnostics on older pre OBD EFI cars .. not just the 205 or Peugeots but all makes/models in general .. the tool consist an switch , small PCB board with led diode (some cars have diagnostic port , but they do don't have any sort of diagnostic light on the instruments for counting the flashes .. hence the use of led diodes) and resistors , alligator clips and obviously - some wiring ! .. so i'm using that .

 

So , pick the way which you prefer and works best for you , for the the info about "how to" as well as downloading OE pdf document for doing diagnostics read this :

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=111080

 

(this is for a Mi16 .. but should be the same as for the late Motronic 1.3 205's , as the late Mi16's are also using Motronic 1.3 management ..)

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

I sent an email to the Madprofessor, but have not gotten a reply yet. I`m not sure if he still clean injectors, seems like people are having a hard time getting in touch with him. I think I`ll go with the offer I got from a company here in Norway, a bit expensive tho. But then again, everything here is expensive! Just gonna have to wait till the mechanic comes back from holliday next month. Hopefully that will get it sortet.

 

I`ll give the fault code reading a go if cleaning the injectors dosent help.

 

Thanks for the help guys

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

So, I got my injectors back from cleaning a couple of days ago. The car is running a bit smoother, but the hot start problem remains! I have been reading about the fuelpump one-way valve leaking, so the fuelpressure drops when the car is stopped. If I try to loosen the fuelhose that goes to the fuelrail 20-30 min after a drive, and see if there is still pressure in the system, would that be a possibility or is that a big NO?

[estland 3]

Yes you can. While the hose is off test the fuel pressure regulator http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=143783

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

Thanks Now all I need is a pump, I`ll post the result here if I can make it work.

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

After a few attempts of building up pressure I think I can say that the pressure regulator holds pressure, but I`m not sure. I couldnt get my "pressure device thingy" to hold pressure, I held my finger over the leak and it held at least 2,5 bar for as long as I could stop it from leaking out. Maybe I`ll find some other way of testing it.

 

But one thing I noticed was that when I was about to test the pressure regulator, I took of the fuel hose from the fuel rail, and no fuel came out at all. And the car had been driven just 15 min before. Is that a sign that maybe the oneway valve in the fuelpump is broken?

[jackherer 543]

Yes, fuel should be spraying out under pressure after only 15 minutes.

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

Then I may have found the culprit to my starting problems. Hopefully I can find a good used one, I tried Ebay but no luck there at the moment

[DamirGTI 342]

Aside from the non return valve , theres an rubber pipe which connects fuel pump housing with the pump - this one tends to crack and thus causes fuel pressure problems as well .. remove the pump out of the tank and have a look , if this the pipe is cracked just replace it with an new piece of rubber fuel hose .

 

D

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

Thanks Damir I`ll have a look at it this winter, I don`t drive the car in the winter because here in Norway they put tons of salt on the roads! The salt stops the water from freezing on the road, but it allso makes the cars rust to pieces in no time. I plan on keeping the gti in one piece

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

I didn`t have very much to do today, so I removed the fuel pump from the tank. There where no cracks or other signs of damage at all, it actually looked new inside. Do you think I should try a second hand pump? Should I try a new coolant temperature sensor as well?

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

I changed the coolant temp sensor today, all it did was lower the idle to a more normal 950-1000 rpm. Still same hot start problem.

 

So far I have changed plugs, leads, coil, ignition amp, coolant temp sensor, fuel filter and had my injectors cleaned. Next on the list is to try to get a working fuel pump, allthough I find it strange that the car fires straight away from cold. If the problem is a leaky fuel pump, then surely there isn`t going to be any more fuel pressure in the lines when the car has been parked for days, even weeks. Or is there something I am missing?

Any suggestions to what to try next?

[DamirGTI 342]

Try another fuel pump , and fuel press. regulator as well ..

 

If that doesn't do anything , try known good spare ECU perhaps ?! .. it really rarely causes issues , but since you've replaced most of the suspect parts i'd be tempted to try with another ECU .. (if by replacing the above makes no difference/fixes the issue ..)

 

D

[Stian_P 1 1 Cars]

Would this pump fit, and be a good choice? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALBRO-190LPH-UPRATED-FUEL-PUMP-FOR-PEUGEOT-205-1-9-GTi-1983-1990-ITP246-/140787640377?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3APeugeot|Model%3A205&hash=item20c798e839

 

There are not any standard fuel pumps on ebay, and in the stores where I live they cost over 400£! So a new one is allmost out of the question, hopefully I can find a good used one or the one on ebay.

 

It seems to be difficult to find a pressure regulator as well, all I can find is the power boost valves. Can I use one of those, and have it set at the standard 3 bar?

Edited August 29, 2014 by Stian_P

[DamirGTI 342]

Dunno if that pump fits into the OE pump housing , best to get an standard second hand pump ..

 

Yes , you can run it on adjustable FPR , however these are mostly for modified engines thus you'll need to adjust it properly so that it doesn't overfuel the engine ..

 

Put an add in wanted section here if you can't find said item via ebay .

 

D

Edited August 29, 2014 by DamirGTI