No Initial Bite After Trackday - Causes?

[Gman 29]

Hi all,

 

After a blinding track day at Abingdon over the weekend, I've noticed that the initial bite on the brakes is rather poor.

 

I'm running gti6 brakes and only recently fitted yellowstuff pads and followed the bedding-in procedure. Initial bite was good before the track day, and the brakes performed great all day on track. However, the pads were smoking a bit and I've managed to cook the high temp calliper paint so it blistered and is flaking off. I was only doing 10-12 lap stints as well, but it was a hot day.

 

Now driving on the road braking is fine when you jump on the anchors, but the initial biting point is poor. Any idea what could have caused this, and do the pads sound like a write off?

 

Thanks

Graham

 

 

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Maybe do the breaking in procedure again?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Yellow stuff really aren't great but remember they're a high temp pad so need some heat to work properly.

Is the bite point better once they're hot?

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

Try de glazing the pads then bedding back in.

[Gman 29]

The yellowstuff have a lot of good reviews, so shouldn't be tarnished with the old greenstuff brush. However, I may well be proved wrong..

 

I have got sufficient heat in them for road use, but there is little improvement in initial feel. The bite point was good before the track day.

 

How do I de-glaze the pads? Just use them lightly for a couple of hundred miles?

[boldy205 74]

I had the same same with yellow stuff pads, so changed to Ferrodo DS2500, which seem more up to the job.

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

Take the top off the friction material with emery cloth then re install and bed in again

[Gman 29]

The DS2500 we 50 quid more, and there were plenty of bad reviews about them too so it was a tough choice!

OK, thanks Tom. Will give that a try

[boldy205 74]

I presume Tom means to lightly sand the face of the pad to take the 'shine' off of them, then re bed them in.

I used yellow stuff a few years back on track days, they were great, so I bought some more when they wore out, but I jut cooked the new ones under similar conditons, so as I said, I changed to DS2500s.

[welshpug 1,646]

sounds about right for yellows, the bed-in red coating gives an impressive initial bite but once that has worn away they need some heat in them to work properly.

 

the only pads I've known to work well cold and get even better when warmed up were Carbon Lorraine.

[boldy205 74]

DOH!

[Gman 29]

Bugger. I only use the car on track about 4 times a year, so really need a decent initial bite. I might as well put my old basic Pagid pads for day-to-day use then swap the yellow stuff for the track.

[welshpug 1,646]

indeed, gti6 brakes are more than adequate with a standard pad I find, even in a heavier ZX, or a 306.

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

If your on gti6 setup.

 

Use std OE clio 172/182 pads from a renault dealer for road use there great.

[rallyeash 155]

Just bleed them!

 

Often I'll drive my car home after a trackday, then when I move the car next time and have forgotten the brakes cooked nearly go straight on at the T junction at the end of my road!

[Anthony 1,002]

For what it's worth given that you're considering them, I always found DS2500's worked fine from cold and I had them on my daily driver for a long time. Indeed, I think those pads might still be on Paul_13's car if he's not worn them out yet.

[kyepan 291]

I would suggest you rebleed the system, if you've taken the fluid past it's operating temperature it'll need refreshing.

 

do that before you do anything to the pads.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

I have always had a similar problem when I used to use the car on the road. The cold bite is terrible after they have been used on a trackday. I can only assume they glaze over and using a sanding pad probably will bring them back to life. These days the car is track only so I don't really care.

 

The other issue I have had with yellows is that they crumble after the pad is about a 1/3 to 1/2 worn. Again I just treat them as a pad that I will only get a third of the pad material out of them. They are circa £45 for a reason, but for what I use them for I cannot fault them. If I stay out for circa 15 laps at Abingdon the pedal starts to get spongey but I am hamfisted and hard on the brakes running semi slicks. This spongeyness could also be the rubber lines expanding, the brake fluid is a high temp product that is changed regularly so I don't think it is that.

 

Summary; good budget trackday pad that I don't think is suitable for the road really. I think the box probably says as much to be fair.

[kyepan 291]

if the pedal gets spongey, it's because the fluid is too hot, again bleeding is required to rectify this, sounds like you need bigger brakes or fluid with a higher operating temperature.

If you push the pedal and it's firm but doesn't slow, the pads are outside of their temperature range and not giving enough friction, back off and let them cool.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Interesting Kyepan. I use Halfords racing fluid which has nigh on identicle spec to rbf600 if my memory serves me right. I have access to some castrol srf so I might try that.

 

I suspect the standard 1.9 gti brake setup is struggling with a 185bhp motor, semi slicks and a moron behind the wheel.

[Gman 29]

Well it wasn't the fluid although it did have a bit of air in. For reference, I'm running braided hoses and using ate super blue racing fluid (decent DOT4).

 

I can't seem to paste the link in from photobucket, but the pads look pretty buggered. They all have a large smooth patch but the edges and parts of the smooth bit are broken up with crumbling sections of the pad.

 

I'm not too sure if using a bit of emery to take the surface back seeking as the surface is crumbling away.

 

What's confusing me is that whilst I suffered no fade whilst on track, I did no more laps per session than I did with my budget pads in there as water and oil temps were causing me to come in as it was a bit of a scorcher. I wonder whether I could realistically have a chance of claiming money back as I followed the bedding-in procedure to the letter.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Gman

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I told you! ;P

Should of gone 1144's or ds2500

 

I've never ever had any joy with ebc products

 

I've had green stuff in the past that's failed within the month

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

 

That's graham's pad

[stu8v 68 1 Cars]

Buy cheap buy twice.

 

By all means try to get your cash back.

 

Buy something worthwile.

[Gman 29]

I know I know Paul!! There are some good reviews out there, but perhaps they're not all hero's on the brakes like I am! lol

 

I will try and get a refund, but the fact the plastic and the backing coating is all melted I'm sure they'll just say I've over worked the pad. That aside, surely pads shouldn't crumble like that even with an extreme heat cycle?