Fitting Xsara Vts Rack

[2052006 10]

Am in the middle of fitting one of these and I've come across two apparent issues:

 

The bottom of the rack (as in directly below where the column ends) seems to just touch the subframe - see photo. I'm not sure if this is an issue or not. The rack bolts up to the subframe fine, but the original 205 rack has a good few mm gap at this point. Is this usual? Should I take a little off the bottom of the rack? Is there enough material to do this safely?

 

Secondly, the top of the lower column seems to be a bit too long, where is goes into the universal joint of the upper column, inside the cabin, under the dash - see photo below. The original 205 lower column has 10-20mm space here. I'm concerned it may interfere with the operation of the universal joint. Is it ok to cut a bit off the top of the splined part? I can't see why not?

Edit: photos don't appear to have worked, will try to post them again...

Edited April 27, 2014 by 2052006

[jackherer 543]

I've not come across the first issue, I'll wait until I see a photo. The second one is normal, you either need to modify the Xsara lower column as you described or use a 205 square drive column which is a direct fit.

[2052006 10]

Numpty question - how do I upload photos from photo bucket?! I've got them on photo bucket but can't seem to upload them on here - what's the best way?

Re the top of the column, I thought I was using a 205 square drive column, maybe not, it was a whole ago that I bought it. What part does the "square" refer to - the top or bottom of the lower column?

Edited April 27, 2014 by 2052006

[jackherer 543]

The square refers to the bottom where it goes onto the rack.

 

If you think you're using a 205 column and it's only slightly too long you can usually undo the four nuts holding the upper column to the shell and move it towards the driver slightly (there is a bit of movement on the bolt holes) which should solve it.

[2052006 10]

Ok, will have a look at that, thanks. Is there any reason why I couldn't just cut the top of the splined bit down though (if necessary)?

[jackherer 543]

No but you should only have to do that to a Xsara lower column.

[2052006 10]

Rack to subframe - no clearance: 14054948113

 

 

Top of lower column: 14031764851

[jackherer 543]

I can see from one of your other photos that you have a 205 lower column there, Xsara ones use a different bolt. Therefore you should be able to make just about enough room by moving the upper column towards the driver.

 

The subframe clearance issue is new to me and I've fitted quite a few VTS racks! Have you definitely got the crush tubes inside the subframe? I'm just thinking that if they aren't there the subframe might bend in a bit when you tighten the rack down.

[2052006 10]

Yes, the crush tubes are definitely in the subframe. It is only just touching and you can see slight witness marks on the subframe on removal of the rack - but there's definitely no clearance.

 

If I move the upper column though, won't this move the position of the steering wheel, albeit only a few mm?

[jackherer 543]

I'm out of ideas then, it's definitely not something I've seen before. Is it a phase two rack? I have only fitted phase ones so that could explain why I haven't seen it maybe?

 

Yes, the wheel will move towards you a small amount, the upper column bolt holes are squares with sides of approx. 10-15mm so it has adjustment in all directions, I assume this is to allow for different tolerances between shells.

[2052006 10]

It was sold to me as a phase one and on checking it does appear to be 2.4 lock to lock, as opposed to 2.6, so I'm confident it is a phase one...

 

Just been out to the car again and nothing obvious appears amiss, but I'll have a more thorough check later...

[jackherer 543]

If the hydraulic hose fittings are threaded it is definitely a phase 1, I can't see in any of your photos.

[2052006 10]

Yep, they're threaded.

[jackherer 543]

If you haven't got to the bottom of it by tomorrow I'll offer a VTS rack up to a subframe and check the clearance.

[2052006 10]

Hmm, just been checking again. Still can't see anything obvious. Taken the vts rack off and put the original 205 one back on just to confirm and as said before, there's about 3mm of clearance. So if you could check tomorrow, that'd be very useful, thanks.

 

Regarding the "other" end of the column, I loosened the 4 x upper column nuts to try that method. However, on first impressions, I found if you pull it up too much, it seems to move the dash clock surround with it a bit, so it doesn't fit the rest of the dash properly - not ideal. Seems to me less of a bodge to chop a bit off the end of the lower column - unless anyone can give me a good reason for not doing this - ? If it's done when fitting xsara lower columns, I can't see a problem...so will probably end up doing this.

[rallyeash 155]

I've got a square drive lower 205 column spare if you need one?!

[Anthony 1,002]

As per Jackherer's comments above, I've never needed to modify the non-PAS square drive lower column at all when fitting Xsara racks - there's not a lot of clearance between the top of the lower column shaft and the upper column UJ, but it fits.

 

If you're passing Swindon this week you're welcome to pop in and have a look at my VTS rack install, but I'm not sure whether that will achieve anything - you've clearly got the right bits and appear to have put it together correctly after all. I wonder if it's another case of tolerances stacking up the wrong way, as I've found on a few occasions what fits on one shell won't fit another.

[rallyeash 155]

I'll try take a couple of pics of mine as I've just converted to VTS rack on a gti subframe

[2052006 10]

I've got a square drive lower 205 column spare if you need one?!

That's what I'm using, but thanks anyway.

 

As per Jackherer's comments above, I've never needed to modify the non-PAS square drive lower column at all when fitting Xsara racks - there's not a lot of clearance between the top of the lower column shaft and the upper column UJ, but it fits.If you're passing Swindon this week you're welcome to pop in and have a look at my VTS rack install, but I'm not sure whether that will achieve anything - you've clearly got the right bits and appear to have put it together correctly after all. I wonder if it's another case of tolerances stacking up the wrong way, as I've found on a few occasions what fits on one shell won't fit another.

Yeah, the top of the column does just (I think, but it's quite difficult to see properly) fit into the the upper column, but if it isn't touching the joint, then it really is whisker close. I think it does come down to the different tolerances.... again!

[jackherer 543]

I've just bolted a Xsara VTS rack to a 205 subframe and it is very close where yours is touching but there is a gap, only about 1mm though.

 

That's the best photo I managed to take so you'll have to take my word for it, there is definitely a 1mm gap there.

[2052006 10]

Thanks very much for doing that. 1mm is not very much then, certainly less than with my standard rack. I think I'll just shave 1-2mm off that part of the rack, just to give me a little clearance. Must be down to the rather wide tolerances, as suggested.

[jackherer 543]

It's solidly mounted to the subframe so it wont move, I can't see you having any problems.

 

I agree it is probably due to the wide tolerances but I wonder if you'd fix both problems with a different subframe...?