Cheap, Fun And Reliable Car

[mowflow 67]

You probably won't find many mk2 imports. They were selling so many ukdm ones by the time the mk2 was out few people imported.

 

I've seen people on the forums say look for a rust free one but as you know, they rust inside out so my view was to buy cheap with visible rust so I could at least assess the extent of what would need done and offset that work/parts against the purchase. To me that made more sense than buying something clean looking at a high price only for sills and arches to start bubbling in 6 months.

 

With the front chassis legs I believe it's a case of the 2.5 having interleaved layers of steel here as revised crash protection/crumple zones. The mk2 was a slightly simpler design. There is a VOSA note for mot stations to check mk2.5s I believe but not mk2s. How wide spread the issue is is another matter. Guys say smack them with a lump hammer to check them but I've seen guys so paranoid and convinced they are screwed that they cut them out only to find slight rust at a normal level for a 10 year old car.

[feb 47]

I've seen people on the forums say look for a rust free one but as you know, they rust inside out so my view was to buy cheap with visible rust so I could at least assess the extent of what would need done and offset that work/parts against the purchase. To me that made more sense than buying something clean looking at a high price only for sills and arches to start bubbling in 6 months.

 

This is a very good point.

 

What about a car that has been "restored"?

 

I am waiting to receive a CD with pictures before/during/after a 40k mile JDM mk2(or 2.5 not sure) restoration.

 

The fact that it only has 40k miles and needed restoration especially being a JDM model rings alarm bells though and only by doing a BIMTA check can you verify the true mileage as they check the last recorded mileage in Japan (usually at the auction).

 

It is common for JDM cars to be clocked when they first arrive in UK so this is something that needs checking.

 

It seems though it has been in UK/northern Ireland for quite some time (possibly close to a decade from my understanding).

 

The current owner bought it for £2500 2 years ago and claims to have spent close to £2000 for refurbishing the underside/ brakes / suspension / wheel arches, plus sourcing original wheels. He is currently selling it for £3000. If he doesn't get the money he said he will continue to keep it in storage.

 

This is the car in question.

 

is that a mk2 or mk2.5 ?

Edited April 25, 2014 by feb

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

I guess it's like any restoration job, and that it depends on who's done it. One persons opinion of 'restored' can be miles out from your own. The photographs your getting could show you more... tho I really believe in seeing something in the flesh.. sometimes pictures dont do a car justice, yet can also make it look better than it is... maybe it's just me. As you said, a 40k (probably kilometers if Japanese) restoration sounds a little funny, although a car parked outside most of it's life not moving will deteriorate as quick, if not quicker than a daily driver thats getting a decent draft blown around it.

 

Thats a Mk2, the headlights are rounder and have the combined H4 type bulb (the Mk2.5 has separate dip / main beam bulbs). The grill apature is narrower and more rounded... The main difference inside is the change from blue dials to white dials, the revised heater controls and integral radio, and the seats changed too I think.

 

I dont know why some japanese imports attract more interest. I know the Mk2 RS and VS ones would have the 6speed, LSD, and a few more hp from the ECU and inlet cam (just like the uk spec sports and anniversary). I never really considered an import as they can be harder to insure (they more than likely wont have a factory fitted immobiliser as this wasnt required in Japan).

 

Also (just to add confusion) MK2.5 is a bit of an unofficial term used to desribe the face lifted Mk2. Some motor factors recognise Mk2 vs 2.5 while otheres will have parts listed for 98-00 Mk2's and 01-05 Mk2's

[mowflow 67]

As Davy says, it's a mk2. Is it an RS model or is that just a sticker?

 

I totally get where you're coming from with the restoration of such a low mileage car and especially one that has spent a portion of it's life in friendlier climates, and let's be honest. 10-14 years old may be an old car but it's not really full restoration old is it? Lots of cars that age that have had hard lives still driving about. The other thing is why would you spend that cash on restoring an MX5. You could probably break it (jdm parts fetch good money) then buy another from the thousands that are always for sale and still have spent less than doing a restoration. They are not rare and I doubt they will be any time soon..... even Mk1's aren't rare yet.

 

In saying that. If if the story and the pictures all stack up then there's nothing really to be scared of. Just not sure i'd spend that money on a Mk2 mx5.... it's getting near S2000 money and you can get a Mk3 for a little over £4k.... not that you'd want one of them.

[harryskid 193]

Suit you sir?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2cv+cabriolet&client=firefox-a&hs=q1N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=I29aU8eqDOLo7AbuwYCABQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1680&bih=888

[feb 47]

The 2CV looks nice

 

I drove a few mk3 MR2s the last couple of days.

It is like a little go kart, due to the lack of weight above the front axle and the engine in the middle it is very agile and fun to drive and you can throw it about on the dry.

The throttle response is good but I haven't had a chance to rev them above 4k where the VVTi kicks in to get a real feel of them.

The driving position is very good and the visibility also.

The steering although light is communicative and the gearbox feels precise and has a short throw.

The engine note is quite pleasant with the roof down.

I don't know if I could live with one as a daily driver after the novelty wears out though.

Having been used to the torque of the 2.5 where you can make fast progress driving "lazily" in a higher gear, I am not sure I'd be satisfied with "only" 138bhp and 125 lbft.

It may be fun on the dry and in the summer especially at slower speeds but when you want to overtake you need to plan it well I guess.

I looked at cars ranging between £2k-3.6k from 69k-90k miles and was amazed at how their owners described them.

"Lovely" in "great condition" only to find out check engine lights being on (due to lambda sensors), the rear brakes being seized due to a car sitting for a year outside etc.

OK, you will ask me what do I expect for the money but if these are lovely great condition cars my Forester is better than when it rolled out of the factory.

It is good to drive other cars so that you appreciate what you have I think.

It makes no sense to buy something "cheaper" and having to start all over again IMHO.

[feb 47]

I test drove a mk2.5 MX-5 yesterday, the 1.8 Sport version and I can totally empathise with Chris Harris' comments about it.

 

You can throw it around and slide it for fun (although a little difficult even on the 15" aftermarket wheels and narrower tyres it was wearing).

 

BUT you can feel the chassis flexing, shift throw isn't grerat, seating position neither, you are sitting higher than in the MR2 (in fact you are sitting very high for such a car) and move around on the seat, the car is not precise at all.

 

It really put me off. It may be fun at slow speeds but if you want to make progress I don't think this car gives you the confidence. Not only that but when you push it you don't get anything in return.

 

The engine is nothing great either, not willing to rev and the sound is boring.

 

A MR2 is a go-kart in comparison.

 

The mk3 MX-5 that I test drove last year felt a lot more composed (a lot less chassis flex), it just needed more power.

 

I haven't driven a mk1 either to be able to compare.

 

For those of you that haven't seen this, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36whvegFIqg "Give me a 205 any day", honestly the mk2.5 MX-5 feels like a piece of s*it in comparison!

Edited May 12, 2014 by feb

[Anthony 1,003]

I do wonder if that was a bad example you drove from how you describe the handling in particular, but fair enough - at least you've tried it and know that it's not for you.

 

I think you're going to have to recalibrate your expectations / driving a little though if you're looking at such cars, as you can't expect a little 1.8 N/A engine to give the same mid-range grunt as a 2.5 Turbo. A Mk3 MR2 is broadly the same as a 205 1.9 GTi in a straight line, so whilst not outright quick, it's certainly brisk enough to entertain and easily overtake.

 

You need to drive around in a gutless diesel for a bit to appreciate what a "normal" car feels like

 

Your budget would get you an early Boxster which might be more to your liking, but the level of risk and running costs are quite a bit higher compared to the likes of an MX5/MR2.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

I agree with Ant here, sounds like you test drove a bad example. But then again my MX is a tad different, personally I'd opt for an import NA MX5 with an NB diff, easy enough to find.

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

_{When I 1st got the MX5 I was a bit gutted when I struggled to 'get any feel for it'. I thought it had a tendancy to understeer when I was expecting some tail out action, and then sometimes, after a bit of provoking it would break away, but a bit too quickly and therefore 'hard to catch and control'... I knew I wasn't quite WRC driver standard but I thought I was capable of handling it better than I was! I'd went for the MX5 because they were supposed to be the ideal car for cheap, amateur rallying but was beginning to wonder if I done the right thing!}

 

_{The little car, while a bit tatty, seemed to have had your typical hairdressers car lifestyle (daily driver for 2 middle aged females), unlike some other crudely modded and abused types. Suspension bushes were old looking but had no excess movement anywhere and sailed through MOT. Wheel alignment seemed ok to me with close to equal camber / toe on both sides, and the tyres (good condition rainsport 2's all round) were wearing perfectly.}

 

_{When I looked into some MX5 / Miata forums tho, it appeared that MX5's from factory have a very 'safe' suspension set up with a fair bit of toe in on the rear and also a bit more negative camber on the rear compared with around 0 degrees on the front. I read about how different people had different set ups depending on how they were using the car, from fast road use to dedicated track car. I played around a bit with my own and have settled on 0 degrees toe front and rear, and 1.25 degrees negative camber front and rear. It totally transformed the little car and has made it so much more predicatable... yes, the back end has become a bit more lively.. but in a really nice way, thats predictable and and can actually be used to power through corners confidently, knowing that I'm not just going to undertsteer and nose dive into the ditch on the exit! Some track car people may prefer a totally different set up tho.}

 

_{..I guess all that speech was just to say while they're never going to go or feel like an S2000, your average hairdressers MX5 can be improved a little to suit your own taste... On the RWD side of things an S2000 would be by my ideal 'fun and reliable' car, but since we're after 'cheap' as well, then it's a step down to the MX....}

 

_{I have no experience of MR2's so cant really comment there. In theory they should be well suited to the track if you're intending of doing any? I've always wondered how they'd feel to drive and if I would be 'fit to handle one' or if it would just make a total d!ck out of me!}

Edited May 12, 2014 by Davy

[feb 47]

It could be the MX5 I drove had a tired suspension.

 

But the chassis flex thing is what really put me off. OK, it had 2 plates welded on the sills (one on each side, only done a year ago and they already started to rust again) but that shouldn't affect chassis rigidity I suppose as it's non structural.

 

With a better suspension and seat things would be improved I guess but the MR2 is more of a driver's car IMHO.

 

As for the S2000, they feel solid and handle well but when they let go they are difficult to control due to the lack of torque and the fact that you have to keep them near the redline.

 

So I don't think they are easier to control than a MR2 but again I have not driven any of them nowhere near their limits (had a play with a friend's S2000 sliding it around at 30mph and felt nice and predictable but one needs to know what happens at higher speeds).

 

You are right Anthony about driving a gutless diesel to appreciate what a "normal" car feels like

 

The MR2 felt a lot more responsive than the Mazda although they are similar horsepower but then again the MX5 that I drove could have been a lemon as you said.

Edited May 12, 2014 by feb

[jackherer 543]

Forget the MX5 mk2.5 you drove and try another one, it sounds like a total shed.

[mowflow 67]

We've had 4 MX5s in the family over the years. A 1.8 mk1 import, a 1.6 mk2, a 1.8 Nevada mk2.5 and the current rust bucket mk2 10th anniversary. Every one has felt totally different. 2 of them were enough to put you off ever getting back in one.

 

Who mentioned an early boxster? That's a very good shout. You would get an early 2.5 for your budget and it's a well documented fact that they don't suffer the deadly IMS issue of the 2.7 and 3.2. They also sound amazing with the bypass mod.

 

S2000 can be had for your budget but you need to be very lucky. A friend bought one just after Christmas for £2.5k and it's been faultless. He plans to sell it soon but not sure how much he'll be looking for.

[feb 47]

The Boxster sounds like a good idea, I love the sound of them, not sure how they drive, I am going to test drive one.

 

But looking at the potential problems is scary: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/13-ENGINE-Common_Engine_Failures/13-ENGINE-Common_Engine_Failures.htm and if one is unlucky enough to encounter any of these the bill will be quite expensive I guess.

[mowflow 67]

Parts are pricey but they are no less reliable than any BMW, Audi, VW etc..... At least that's what the boys at Deutsche technic in Glasgow told me.

 

The IMS is the big scary one as there's no way of checking, it's a big job with gearbox out to fit the up rated part which I think you can only get from America and it's new engine time if it does go. Like I said, I do remember reading either a poll on one of the boxster forums or a Porsche wiki that listed number of IMS failures against models and there were zero 2.5s listed. Ignoring the issue the 2.5 is the least desirable model as obviously it's slower than the later models and the S.

 

They drive really well but their capability is their down fall to some extent.

[feb 47]

I am going to test drive one tommorrow but I don't think I can live with the risk of a potential engine destruction, it will make a Subaru 2.5 forged build seem cheap in comparison!

[mowflow 67]

Buy a 2.5 boxster then.

 

Seriously. everyone says the issue is blown out of proportion on the internet. When I looked into a boxster I ended up ruling it out as although the likelyhood was small it would totally ruin the ownership experience.

[feb 47]

Buy a 2.5 boxster then.

 

Seriously. everyone says the issue is blown out of proportion on the internet. When I looked into a boxster I ended up ruling it out as although the likelyhood was small it would totally ruin the ownership experience.

 

I agree, especially being a worrier I'd get totally paranoid if I bought one.

 

I went to see a 3.2S today (just out of curiosity as that wouldn't be a downsize at all). I didn't drive the car but as a passenger it felt very sure footed. The flat six sounds awesome.

 

On hard acceleration especially at higher rpm the clutch was slipping and it STANK until I left, a good 15 minutes later, an expensive (engine out?) repair I guess.

 

The guy didn't seem to have any clue about the IMS.

 

Another thing that worried me is he mentioned that when the car has been sitting for a while (~20 minutes or so) whether hot or cold there is a puff of smoke (oil) from the exhaust.

 

This doesn't sound good to me, I don't know whether it's bore wash or something wrong in the cylinder head.

 

Anyway even if I had the money I wouldn't touch this car.

Edited May 14, 2014 by feb