Help Please! Need A "d6C" Engine Code Tag

[IanH 1 1 Cars]

Hi, I need to be able to convince my local MOT chap that the engine that is in my pug 205 is a '88 Citroen D6C, and hence does not need to be put through the emissions test with criteria set for a car with a catalytic convertor, which it doesn't have, never had, nor well ever have as the D6C motor never did. The Pug on the other hand, is a '93 and did have, so the MOT chap tests it under that and it consequently fails.

 

The problem is that the engine code tag on the back of the block (early alloy block) is blank for whatever reason, and the smaller plate that normally reads "D6C" (timing end at front, near engine mount) was removed by my engine builder when the block was decked and not put back on. So I cant prove that the engine is a D6C without either of these tags.

 

Does anyone have an old block kicking around that still has the "D6C" tag riveted on it? If so, I will gladly sell you my least used kidney for it! (the tag, not the whole block, lol)

 

I've tried the dealerships, and guess what they said...

 

The pic is an old one taken before said engine work, and showing the tag:

 

Edited April 17, 2014 by IanH

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

Cant you just take it somewhere else locally? You could ask first to save losing a mot fee

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

The CAT Mi16 alloy block engines used the 3-row ECU. So if yours is on the 2 row you could try that with your MOT man?

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Did any of the D6B engines have a cat? If not can't you just use a tag off one of those?

[welshpug 1,666]

Nope, no cats on d6b.

[ablister 31]

you're MOT guy has got it wrong, if you don't have the engine number/tag, e.g it has fallen off, then benefit of the doubt will be given to you.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

As you have found out allot of MOT people don;t really know the rules but the help files are on the screen, there is a loop hole for cars until around 1994 for Cat's anyway but the chassis number is a give away, You can PM me and I'll tell you if it's a CAT shell or not

[Slo 283 1 Cars]

I was told the onus is on you to prove the age of the engine though which the op is trying to do by finding an original tag

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It is, But as said the chassis number as like many 309 Goodwoods never had CAT's which they go byin this era

[IanH 1 1 Cars]

Bingo, Slo got it right. According to the official mot regs, the onus is on me to prove it's not the engine that was fitted to the '93 pug 205 AND that it's an engine that didn't have a cat.

 

I keep getting this problem with mot stations wherever I go. It normally takes a lengthy argument and me basically grinding the poor guy down to the point where he hits the "fudge" button just to see the back of me. if I got written proof of engine identity then it's problem solved from here on.

 

The engine runs Omex management now, so no more 2 row ecu.

 

When I picked up the engine many moons ago out of the bx 16 valve I found in a scrapyard, I had the foresight to take the cars vin plate as well. I'll pm the vin number to you miles, cheers.

 

I'm not aware of these loopholes though, any chance someone can point me in the right direction?

 

I've contacted the official Citroen vintage vehicle people in France with the aim of getting written proof of the identity of my engine, but they say without a unique engine code (blank plate on mine) they cannot supply any info. I told them I had the original vehicles vin, so could they get the engine code from their records, to which they replied they could not do that as it could open the door to vehicle identity thefts, so there's no way I can now prove the id of my engine. Bastards, lol.

 

Cheers for the help chaps.

[welshpug 1,666]

Put the vin into servicebox.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

I thought the engine code was embedded in the VIN - chars 6-8.

[2-Pugs 57]

Not in the case of my car. Or any of the others I have owned in the last ten years.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

I know it is on later Peugeots but not sure about 205s.

[S@m 156]

The onus is on the cars owner to prove the age, i had this situation for a few years with my 306. I never had much issue, the tester would usually just realise it was clearly an older engine and i'd have the relevant part of the testers manual ready to quote from if necessary, but once or twice i had to point out the date stamps on the engine mount/inlet manifold/throttle body and pretty much everything else which all read 88-89 on mine and that would satisfy them despite not really proving anything.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

well - no matter - it is on my car which is a bog standard 1.6 GTi and the engine code "CB6" (according to Mac's site ) shows it correctly as an XU5ja

regards

Dave

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

Some helpful info here - from top of page on this site: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm:

Vehicles Fitted with a different engine

 

Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.

e.g. A 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission purposes.

 

Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter

to prove engine age

 

 

[welshpug 1,666]

Other than early cars the vin holds the engine code.

[IanH 1 1 Cars]

Anyone know what the engine code would look like? Starting letters/numbers, length etc? It's an '88 Citroen bx 16valve

[welshpug 1,666]

Pm my your two vin's and i'll see what servicebox shows if you like.

[ablister 31]

But if you can't prove the engines age, then the benefit of the doubt will be given to the presenter.

 

Anyway the MOT computer doesn't hold the information needed to tell an engines age by its number.

 

Point is, you could have anything written on a piece of paper claiming the age of the engine is pre-cat and the tester would have to take that as gospel.

[IanH 1 1 Cars]

But if you can't prove the engines age, then the benefit of the doubt will be given to the presenter

 

Is that really true?

 

My understanding from what the MOT testers was saying is that if I cant prove what the engine is, the test will be carried out based on the vehicle registration, and that would mean a fail for my D6C engine as it would be tested using catalytic converter criteria.

Edited April 20, 2014 by IanH

[welshpug 1,666]

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_730.htm

 

 

All spark ignition engined vehicles with four or more wheels in Classes IV and VII, except quadricycles and electric/combustion engine (Hybrid) vehicles.

Contained within this section are flowcharts. Carefully use these flowcharts to accurately establish which type of emission test is applicable to the vehicle being tested-

 

 

 

vehicles Fitted with a different engine

Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.
e.g. A 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission purposes.

Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter
to prove engine age.

 

 

 

Early catalyst equipped vehicles may not require a ‘CAT’ test. The flowcharts and notes must be carefully followed.

 

 

 

 

http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newnoncat.pdf

 

 

 

 

now the wording I found which will make the tester do a non cat test, is in this document.

 

http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newp9.pdf

 

in your case even without any data, you'll be able to get it through a 3.5% 1200 ppm HC test.

[ablister 31]

 

Is that really true?

 

My understanding from what the MOT testers was saying is that if I cant prove what the engine is, the test will be carried out based on the vehicle registration, and that would mean a fail for my D6C engine as it would be tested using catalytic converter criteria.

Yes, it's true. Although it's easy for me to say that sitting here and to try convince the tester the same.

 

As the above post has proved, it will have to be tested on a pre-cat test as there won't be an exact match in the emissions machine. Tester can't prove the engine was in the car originally (because it wasn't) so can't test emissions based on cat levels.

[welshpug 1,666]

build code for this vin number is 1990! however the charts do say "first used" but the fact that the engine type can't be proven gives the benefit of the doubt.