Valve Guide Advice

[jackherer 543]

That's not good, fingers crossed for a better result tomorrow!

 

Who are all these local people he buys parts from?

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Theres a garage up in leiston , the bloke there has about 25 pugs sitting around not doing a lot.

 

I get quite a few bits from there too.

 

Is there something you was after jack? I was up there today.

 

 

P

[jackherer 543]

Ah OK, I know the Leiston garage, is it called Kerridges or something?

 

I'm not after anything in particular, I just worried I might not know about a local supplier or two

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

yep kerridges mate

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Ok,

 

Looking at the engine codes the old engine is a DFZ whilst the new block is D6B- will this make any difference?

 

As far as I can tell the DFZ isn't a GTI block- im abit confused! *** edit- I think the DFZ was fitted to catalysts? maybe ?****

 

P

Edited April 15, 2014 by Telf

[welshpug 1,661]

DFZ is from an auto gti or a CTi.

 

still got the pistons from it?

 

they have smaller and shorter valves, deeper combustion chamber than the D6B gti engine.

[jackherer 543]

The DFZ is a late Motronic engine, I remember him telling me he had Motronic when he was talking about fitting an Mi16 recently as it meant he could just fit the Mi16 ECU to his 8V loom and add a couple of wires for the ICV.

 

I'm not sure what the implications of running a D6B on Motronic are, I imagine it will work well though being AFM based still.

[jackherer 543]

DFZ is from an auto gti or a CTi.

 

That's the 105BHP one isn't it? That might mean the management is less good at running a D6B than I imagined.

[welshpug 1,661]

Pretty sure it is, they had Jetronic LU2 with a Lambda sensor early on, not sure if they changed to Motronic later on?

 

DKZ is the 122 bhp Motronic engine.

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Ok ,

 

We shoudnt have any dramas then, well hopefully but so far the Gods of GTI seem to be against us!

 

Still you gotta laugh!!

 

 

P

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

We do still have the old block- im gonna take it to bits next week for practise

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Hey all,

 

Engines back in- we dragged it under the front then hoisted it into position- had a nightmare getting it to connect back to the gearbox! Hopefully will be running by tomorrow!

 

 

P

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Hi all,

 

SO the engine is finally rebuilt and running- I was wondering if anybody has ever had any experience of running a D6B block with a CTI head. I think the valves might be smaller in the CTI head (from the original DFZ engine).

 

I just got a text saying the engine is sounding tappity - but apparently wasn't after initial start up- obviously waiting to see/ hear it myself but that might not be for afew days.

 

Also the guy whos car it is says its running abit hot- this appears to be because he doesn't have a oil cooler due to it being a CTI so I guess the D6B block must need one!

 

 

P

[welshpug 1,661]

Oil cooler shouldnt be an issue on the road, is it a fresh thermostat and expansion tank cap?

 

Tapping sound when warm may be a cracked manifold.

Edited April 18, 2014 by welshpug

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

it was more a tappy clicking noise- retarded the ignition as it was set bang on its old position- seems to have quietened down.

 

However now getting white exhaust- not sure if its still blowing out water from the block being washed- or the gasket / liners are leaking ! ARgghhh!

 

 

P

[DamirGTI 342]

DFZ head on a D6B bottom end will make really low compression engine .. i imagine it'll be quite a bit flat performance wise .

 

Is it thick white smoke with sweet smell (burning antifreeze) or light white smoke (condensation) ? if it's light white smoke which appears shortly after the cold start up and clears after a few minutes while the engine warms up don't worry it's just condensation and thus nothing to worry about .

However if it's thick white and sweet smelling smoke , do a block test for combustion leaks asap .. also if that's the case the expansion bottle level should drop as well indicating sealing problem within the engine internals .

 

 

D

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Hey Damir,

 

He reports that it is quite a quick motor- better than the old engine but without sitting in it I cant really say!

 

The white smoke was there as he pulled away from my house after a 10 mile drive from his - this is why im thinking it may be a liner or the head gasket. the head was quite heavily pitted post a skim but hadn't leaked prior to the strip so thought it would be ok

 

How would we go about doing a block test ? He thinks its water from the pressure wash he gave the block prior to fit but Im not convinced!

 

P

[DamirGTI 342]

Interesting ! .. with such combination of the head/block the static compression ratio would be down below 8.4 which is standard for a DFZ engine .

The combustion chambers on a DFZ head are really deep , and it's the head/chambers which makes DFZ low compression engine not the bottom end ie. pistons , they have small shallow 9cc dish and bigger piston compression height also the pistons are sitting almost flush with the liner deck , just a 0.02mm down the bore @ TDC .

D6B bottom end has pistons with much deeper 15cc dish , and a little bit smaller piston compression height , and thus the pistons don't climb as high up inside the bore @ TDC as the DFZ ones .

 

Anyways , other way around is much better for sure ! D6B head on a DFZ bottom end makes really nippy engine with s*** loads of torque available instantly all the way round the rev range .. though it tends to pink badly even on a 98 RON petrol so dizzy recurving is a must or better still mappable ignition (makes around 11.1 static compression ratio with this block/head combination)

 

 

Well , freshly after the engine rebuild theres bound to be some odd smells/fumes until all the oily residue sealants and other products used during the rebuild burns off the engine completely after a two or three heating cycles so that's to be expected , also nothing to worry about but yes it needs a frequent check up if it's all fine .. i'd recommend after the freshly rebuild engine , monitoring oil and coolant level each day for a first two weeks of running in rebuild engine - coolant level must not droop ! no even a little bit , while the oil level is expected to go down a little bit until the piston rings seal up completely after roughly first 500 miles it should stop burning oil indicating that the engine running in procedure is finished .

 

"Block test" , it's really simple and quick yet very effective and precise testing method for engine internal leaks detection (head gasket , cracks etc.) , it's an chemical tester which is used via cooling system to detect presence of combustion gasses :

http://www.blockchek.com/

(check the youtube for said tester to see how it works)

 

 

It's not expensive either so really handy tool to have in your tool box which will save you a lot of head scratching dealing with such cases where you're unsure if the engine maybe has some kind of sealing problem .

 

Inform your mate to keep an eye on a coolant level for a while , if this the smoke which you've seen was because of the leaky head gasket the coolant level will droop down for sure ..

If you're concerned about it , it'll be best to perform said "block test" which will quickly show if theres a sealing problem or not .

 

D

Edited April 19, 2014 by DamirGTI

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Hey Damir,

 

Ive told him to keep a eye on the levels and thanks for the link regarding blockchek-If it doesn't settle I will get him to buy some!

 

Next job after this is all done is my engine- at 237K its getting a bit tired! I mean I coudnt even out run his CTI in my 1.9 even when I was really trying which cant be right!

 

 

P

[DamirGTI 342]

I haven't driven DFZ engine myself , but people who did say that this engine has better low down torque than D6B one .. but that's because of its bottom end which boosts up the torque figure not the head . That's for the standard DFZ engine .

 

Suppose yours has lost performance as you say , 237K is really high mileage engine and would for sure benefit from a refresh which will restore it's power potential ..

Anyway , 1.9 D6B engines usually tends to be a little bit down on power from factory specified (which oddly isn't the case with 1.6 engines) even when they're moderate mileage engines .

 

When you'll be rebuilding it , i would recommend rebuilding the dizzy as well .. cos the springs inside the dizzy often weakens/loose the tension which throws the ignition timing off and thus affects engine performance quite a bit .

 

If you have a bottom end of a DFZ engine and wish to experiment a bit , try D6B head and DFZ bottom end combination .. with such built engine you'll be doing circles round your mates car like a clown on ecstasy !! even the Mi16 would struggle to catch up ..

 

D

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Well,

 

it looks like the water problem is pretty bad- 2 L of coolant used in 2 days- exhaust still smoking- on checking the sparks 3 are clean and 1 nearest the gearbox is very dirty.

 

I guess there is a gasket issue. Im presuming not a disturbed liner but Ive never seen one go tbh.

 

Looks like the heads coming off again!

 

P

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

If it was a liner seal problem you would find water in the sump and the oil like pea soup .

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

ok cheers tom, the oil in the filler is very milky but dip stick seems ok.

 

I guess its a top end issue then

 

P

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Hi all,

Just to close this out for those who offered advice or may be interested.

 

The car is fixed now. It seems the loose head bolt caused the problem post rebuild. Also it appears the car parts place initially supplied a cheap thin head gasket- a more expensive thicker gasket has been fitted. The car now has no oil or water loss.

 

So thanks guys for your advice it was much appreciated

 

P

[jackherer 543]

Good news

 

Tell Jamie I still want those windows, and that he should bring them round in his 205 to prove he really has one