[Engine_Work] Dobboy's Clean-Up / Gti6

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

m3 wasnt trying, they're 265 bhp / ton, youre at around 185...

 

Probably, but i was racing in mine!

 

The way i see it is my 25yr home built toy against a 4 or 5 year top performer, and (to me) possibly holding its own......that's what it's all about right? .

 

Funnily enough, after the first corner he eased off a good bit, when we probably had good half mile of twists and turns and half decent straights in front of us.

 

Why buy an M3 and not use what it's got.

 

Even if he wasn't trying, i bet i had more fun than him

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Steering not quite right and "torque steer" points towards wishbone ball joints? I don't get any with my V6. Solid beam mounts certainly transfer loads more noise.

 

Sounds odd but it takes time for a freshly built car to settle in and gel together, should get sweeter and sweeter!

 

The torque steer isn't bad by any means, 8-12 degrees or so maybe, but i don't remember having any of that malark before.

 

The wishbones are brand new, DELPHI ones, so hopefully fairly decent? Yeah maybe after things settle and a few hours on the seat it'll get better but it really does feel like a very different car at the moment.

 

I've probably not tested the solid beam mounts out enough to decide whether the performance of them out weights being able to hear my stereo reasonably loud. TBH i think my lack of confidence in the front at the moment is stopping me getting to feel how the back behaves with the new mounts.

 

That reminds me, the position of the stereo is a right PITA innit?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Picked up my refurb'd wheels, the guy had told me if i held off a few days he would use a new type of silver paint on them.

 

I went away without lifting the centre caps but they'll post them out to me tonight.

 

They done an excellent job again, and the wheels are almost look like chrome!

 

Acid dipped, powdercoated, painted then lacquered, and my new tyres fitted.

 

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Fitted them to the car which is badly needing a wash and some pampering for the summer.....(and the F%^&KING bent valve fixed).

 

However......

 

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

[Malc 45]

All that time and money spent painting and polishing and you still have that blooming scabby sticker in the rear window, get it off!!!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Aye, it's seen better days alright!

 

I'd like a new one but not seen a Grove of Rugby repro one yet (and it's beyond my photoshop skills to make one up). And Grove were taken over many moons ago. I tried phoning them a while back to see if they had any old ones tucked away but unfortunately not.

 

There's one on this guys Goodwood too, same plates as mine also.

 

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=158635

[Andy_C 50]

Just read this from the start. Excellent!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Cheers Andy, did you cry ? Lol

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Right then, have had a few good blasts in it with new wheels and tyres etc etc and the car is living up to my expectations. Very happy with how it performs.

 

Got my spare head in to an engine shop getting skimmed and will be swapping it over soon.

 

Now, i've noticed a water leak, i've eventually narrowed it down to the water pump. This had a new pug gasket fitted, but an aftermaket pump(if that makes any odds?)

 

I managed to go strip covers off etc and went round the bolts a few times giving them a little nip (these were previously torqued to pugs recommendation and thread locked at 15nM), but still i have a drip drip drip. Bit hesitant to tighten any further in case i sheer anything. Anyone any ideas that could stop this for a few weeks?

 

I was half contimplating changing the head over with engine in, but after looking at it better tonight whilst feckin about with water pump i can't see how i would be able to tension the timiing belt with the engine in situ, can it even be done?

 

So, looks like i'll be taking this engine out and doing everything on the floor, which should make things easier. Bit of a bugger but i'm hoping i'd have the lot done in about 20hrs.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

You can tension the belt from working underneath easy enough.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Dizzee, would i need one of the roller type tensioners rather than the type that i've got which is the type you use an allen key to turn it to the marker thing? (Auto tensioner?)

 

Tbh i think it will be easier and quicker for me just to remove engine and do it all on the deck.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Mine has a manual tensioner but didn't realy find it a problem. It will be easier to do with the engine out but far more labour intensive you might have some trouble holding the engine while you torque the head, might be easier with a helper.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Picked up my head and bits today

 

 

 

 

 

He say's "about 6 thou" has came off it, which equates 0.1524mm

 

He measured the gasket in the head kit at 1.2mm and say's it'll be fine.

 

As the 0.15 is getting kind of close to the max 0.2mm head skim, at what stage should the 1.4 gasket be used?

 

He had another RFS head in (belonging to a member (and mechanic) on here i think), so will try contact them and see what they think.

[welshpug 1,657]

I would use a repair gasket whenever the head is skimmed, unless the pistons are modified or aftermarket.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

I would use a repair gasket whenever the head is skimmed, unless the pistons are modified or aftermarket.

 

Why is that? at what level of skim is the 1.4mm repair gasket a must?

 

I've been reading a few threads and if i'm reading correctly a standard gasket would be ok if cams and timing are to be standard?

 

Also, would pug's max skim of 0.2 not tie in with their "repair" gasket of 1.4mm rather than 1.2? (i.e. if you go beyond a 0.2mm skim you need to put on a 0.2mm thicker gasket at 1.4mm?

 

If it wasn't the case, why do Payen do a 1.2mm thick gasket in their head kit?

[Anthony 1,003]

If you're retaining standard cams and cam timing, a standard 1.2mm gasket will be fine assuming that it's not had previous heavy skim(s).

 

Realistically, a fair percentage of GTi-6 engines will have been apart and had one or more skims during their lives and most out there will likely be running a standard thickness gasket with the owners none the wiser. The standard cams are mild enough that it's not likely to be an issue providing that you time it up properly in the first place (which is where people fail!)

 

If you're running (or likely to run) hotter cams or you're running the cams with advanced timing, I'd run a repair gasket for peace of mind given how tight valve-piston clearance is on the GTi-6 engine even before being skimmed.

[dcc 855]

do you know if head has been skimmed before? you don't even know how much it was skimmed! 'about 6 tho!?' sounds like hes just taken it flat, but not noticed skim depth.

 

minor tolerances (0.05mm) can be within the swing when timing the cams, depending on manufacturing tolerances of the pulleys, let alone what ever coke build up on the pistons crown,

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact, ignore the advice people are giving you (again), build it up and do it all over again (or not, who knows...)

Edited April 14, 2015 by dcc

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

DCC, i'm certainly not ignoring advise, but i don't want to spend more if i don't need to.

 

The consensus was that the gasket that came off the head was original, therefore head never had a skim?, Anthony say's a standard gasket will be ok, the machine shop say's the 1.2mm gasket will be ok, the feckin kit came with a 1.2mm gasket, and WP say's to use a 1.4!

 

So i don't know what to think..... and i was thinking this would be the easy bit for me.

[Anthony 1,003]

You need to accurately measure the head to establish whether it's been skimmed previously and if so, by how much - anything else is guessing.

 

If you're in doubt, WP's advice about using a repair gasket is the "safe" option.

[dcc 855]

Use the 1.2mm gasket then.

 

Now personally I would use some intelligence and not fit a gasket which leaves a 0.05mm tolerance (That's assuming the guy hasn't actually taken more than that!).

 

How many tappers have you got? and even better how many have you seen or heard of? These engines have such small tolerances it isn't even worth risking. unless you have loads of money and want to learn the hard/expensive way?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

You need to accurately measure the head to establish whether it's been skimmed previously and if so, by how much - anything else is guessing.

 

If you're in doubt, WP's advice about using a repair gasket is the "safe" option.

 

Yeah, i'll measure it, my digi calipers are not at hand at the minute.

 

But, say it's never been skimmed before and the head is less than the 0.2mm max skim, does that mean the 1.2 gasket is ok?

[dcc 855]

it depends on how old the tooling was when the engine was made, but if everything was perfect, including your ability to build the engine, not overtighten the head, time the cams and time the bottom end, to perfect factory settings, then it would be ok.

 

I think you're missing the point here though - i remember Josh Gault building his engine, his bearings and rings were within tolerance, just, he ended up rebuilding the whole engine again due to excessive smoke because he chanced it.

 

to be honest, just build it up and you'll either have a smug look on your face, or a bit of egg, either way it doesn't bother me in the slightest

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

And to add to the mix, there are three different thickness gaskets on ECP, a 1.1 a 1.15, and a 1.35.