[Engine_Work] Dobboy's Clean-Up / Gti6

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Hi Paul, i don't have one of they tensioner tools so the 137 kit suits me as i know i'll get the tension correct.

[welshpug 1,657]

I'd echo that

 

Water pumps come with a gasket so no need to buy one separately

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

WP, the water pump on my old engine has only done 1500 miles, so i'm gonna use that one again. i.e. only but a belt and pump gasket rather than the full kit.

 

I need to keep the costs down this time.

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

Let me know how you get on with vts box and rack I'm still running standard in mine been tempted to change but only covered about 10miles so far. Are you going to fit the 306 pas pump etc? I fancied having a go at the saxo/106 electric pas pump fitment.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Hi Matt, so you got yours done? good, wasn't sure if you had shelved it.

 

What box did you fit?

 

I'm not sure about Pas yet, someone who had it on took it back off as they felt it was too light.

 

Not sure what I'll do with it yet.

[Malc 45]

Dobboy for what you use the car for it's not worth putting in PAS.

[Mattr5uk 20 5 Cars]

I did finally get my arse in gear and get it finished.

I used the standard 1.9 be1 box I think I would rather have used the 1.6 box and I would definitely prefer pas fitted.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Good show Matt. I had mine head to head with another car which has a 6speed (and cams) and there was a fair difference in acceleration, it left mines standing!

 

Have you changed your expansion bottle cap?

Yeah Malc, non Pas is a good deterrent for women driving it too!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

My replacement engine and VTS rack arrived on Monday, and i splashed out on a £40 engine stand.

 

So stripped all the air con,PAS/brackets off it to try get some weight off it and after a little bit of engineering and some huff and puff, i managed to get the engine up on to the stand myself without a hoist and set about getting it looking pretty.

 

The engine appears nice and clean, and no evidence of oil/coolant leaks/spillages etc. It also had a Pug oil filter on it which adds to making me think the engines been looked after.

 

 

 

 

One thing i did notice though is that this VTS engine only had 1 sensor on the Tstat housing, which isn't a problem as everything from the my current engine will be transfered over to match my loom. No sure if i should be swapping over the vacuum pump or not.

 

The engine never came with a flywheel, so i'm contimplating putting on a TTV lightened one, which i can get for £260 delivered.

 

I also had a squint at the timing belt, and it looks like the bottom pulley may be ok too as all the timing holes line up, but will do the timing using an 8v pullet to be safe.

 

So loaded up the battery drill with various wire brush bits, and set about it for a couple of hours.

 

 

 

 

 

My order from Pug should be collectable today, and my ECP order should come too, which lets me get on with timing belt etc.

 

Picked up a square type lower column shaft to suit the VTS rack, but still to get the correct clutch fork suitable for the VTS box/Mi push clutch and a BE3 pedal.

 

I thought i was finished 8(

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Oh, another thing i noticed on the VTS engine is that the ping? sensor was yellow, unlike my other engine which was black. Not sure if i'll need to change this over or not.

[Anthony 1,003]

There's loads of sensor and other differences between the GTi-6/Ph1 VTS and Ph2 VTS engines that you'll need to swap over.

 

If you do a search I know that I've posted them all before, in one of my project threads from memory.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Anthony, crap, i thought the bare engine was essentially identical.

 

I'll try find your thread.

[Anthony 1,003]

Had a quick search and found the post in question here

 

Being from a Phase 2 Xsara VTS, there is a bit more work to do and parts to swap compared to an engine sourced from either a 306 GTi-6 or a Phase 1 VTS owing to the use of multiplex wiring and differing fitment parts on the later car.

• Wiring loom and ECU

  The multiplex wiring on the Phase 2 VTS is sufficiently involved and difficult to retrofit into a pre-multiplex car like a 205 that to all intents and purposes you need to source a replacement loom and ECU from either a 306 GTi-6 or a Xsara VTS, both of which are pre-multiplex and thus comparitively simple to convert for use in a 205. Make sure that the ECU is supplied unlocked, otherwise you'll be paying a chunk more money to have it unlocked.

• Exhaust manifold

  The Phase 2 VTS manifold uses an olive type fitment for joining to the downpipe/CAT as opposed to the normal 205 style arrangement used on 306 GTi-6 and Phase 1 Xsara VTS. Could be used I'm sure with a little fabrication, but given how cheaply the earlier manifolds are available for these days, it's easier just swapping it for the earlier manifold in my opinion.

• Knock sensor

  The 306 GTi-6 and Phase 1 VTS use a three pin knock sensor, whereas the Phase 2 VTS uses a two pin knock sensor. I suspect that the third pin is just a shield and not needed and thus you could swap the connector on the loom, but for the sake of simplicity and keeping modified parts to a minimum, it makes sense to just swap the knock sensors over.

• MAP sensor

  Different connector on the Phase 2 VTS's. Not sure whether the sensor itself is electronically the same and thus could be used with a connector swap on the loom, or whether it works differently and is incompatible.

• Oil pressure switch

  Different connector, although works in the same way and could be used with a connector swap. As per all but Phase 1 GTi-6's, there is no sender for the oil pressure gauge fitted as standard to the engine.

• Fuel injectors

  Different fuel injectors are used on the Phase 2 VTS compared to the earlier cars - 306's and Phase 1 VTS's are green, Phase 2 VTS's are black. Not sure whether the flow rate or impedance differs between them.

• Fuel pressure regulator (FPR)

  350KPa (3.5 bar) regulator fitted on the Phase 2 Xsara, whereas the earlier cars use a 300KPa (3.0 bar) FPR

• Coolant temperature senders

  Phase 2 VTS uses a single coolant temperature sender that's shared by the ECU, dash guages and radiator cooling fan, and this needs to be swapped for the earlier setup that used seperate senders. You don't need to worry about the brown "Bitron" sender when using the engine in a 205 as the radiator fan is controlled by a seperate thermoswitch, but you will need a dedicated ECU temperature sensor, and either using the 306 style combined sender for both the gauge and warning light, or using seperate senders as per a 205.

• Upper engine mount arm

  The top arm is also different which I didn't spot initially - the Phase 2 Xsara arm sits slightly forward of the mount, whereas the 306 (and Phase 1 Xsara I'm assuming) uses a mount that kinks backwards from the mount.

Also, phase 2 VTS's (and I believe the late GTi-6's) use the later 137 tooth cambelt and auto-tensioner setup, which I personally dislike and will be swapping back to the earlier 136 tooth cambelt and conventional eccentric tensioner. To do this, you'll need to fit the piller that the earlier tensioner sits on (part number 082017) and use a different tensioner bolt (part number 693278). The idler pulley is the same for both the early and late belt setups.

 

Otherwise, the engine itself is the same and with the above issues addressed it's basically as per a conversion using a 306 GTi-6 or Phase 1 VTS engine that's been discussed in great length elsewhere on the forum.

 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Anthony

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Anthony, i found the project. (Jalopy?)

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=128927&page=7

 

The knock sensor is the only one i hadn't intended changing.... so i'll change that over too.

[welshpug 1,657]

Swap all your sensors and injectors over, phase 2 xsara uses a 3plug multiplex ecu system

 

 

derp.

 

missed page 2

Edited September 26, 2014 by welshpug

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Think I've now got everything I need for the engine/steering/gearbox swap except oil, driveshaft seals, and a clutch cable.

 

The cars been running fine with no water issues so I'll shelve the swap until the winter (which is coming fast here) when it'll be off the road anyway.

 

 

But decided to get as much fun out of it this year as I can and have booked another trackday at KH this Sunday as the weather forecast looks dry.

 

Also popped in to see a guy I know and he has all sorts of 205 parts I can probably have if I want.

 

The bits that stood out are GrpA top mounts and a PTS GrpA steering rack.... And a dismantled Mk1 Manta!

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Had a great day at KH and will definately do it again. The car was great and i was beginning to try get some LOO on the go at a couple of the bends. I was supposed to be in the road car group, however i seemed to be the only one with back seats and no roll cage!.....however.

 

Only had 1 incident. On one of my sessions the little bar of my gear linkage popped off (left me in Neutal) just before the hairpin bend and i had to make my way to the gravel. As a result the other 29 cars in my group got called in and i had to get towed back to the pits. It was highly embarassing but i kept my helmet on!

 

I fixed it and decided not to go back on, but some of the regulars in my group told me just to go back on and not to worry about it, so i did, and it happened again except I was left in 2nd, so i just pulled in and made my way off the track and called it a day.

 

Here's a video of one of my earlier sessions, my warm up lap starts about 1.29 and i start getting the foot down about 2.30

 

(Car still with the 1.9 box)

 

http://youtu.be/-o38_mCilts

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

This arrived today. Just looking at the instructions that came with it. It mentions "when the flywheel carries the ignition pulse generator, this should be checked for both axial and radial positioning".

 

I assume that if it's fitted correctly i don't need to worry/check anything. Where is the pulse generator on it?

 

 

Got the bits i needed and fitted to the VTS box, and also stripped down the VTS rack and fitted new arms and ends.

 

 

 

Just need to do the hardest bit now...... getting started.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Still not done any changes to the car although have all the parts and fluids etc etc i intended upgrading over the winter at hand.

 

It doesn't miss a beat at the moment and perhaps that's why i haven't got the finger out..... the weather doesn't help as the thought of working out in the cold doesn't exactly fill me with joy.

 

Found a couple of pics, one from when i just got the car and gave it a good clean, and one from when i'd clocked up circa 350hrs and £xk on it. It doesn't look like a hell of a difference! but there is.

 

Pre major work

 

Post major work

[Malc 45]

Looks great, pictures don't really do it justice through! Looks far better in the flesh.

 

Anyway time to get your finger out and start fitting the new parts, springs not far away!

[Plumbob 66 1 Cars]

Looks nice! Any more photos for us to have a nose at?

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Cheers Malc. Yeah you're right and i'll be ready. I recon 4 full long days at it and i'll be done. Me and you are getting our money's worth out of these cars this year! Lol i wish i'd borrowed your crane while you are away to give me a deadline to work to.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

Looks nice! Any more photos for us to have a nose at?

Hi PB, cheers, i only really have the pictures i previously posted. Last year i done what you're doing just now, but i done the engine etc first and paint last. The interior, seats, bay, underneath etc is all very presentable too. Now i'm trying to pluck up the courage to get in about it again and do some upgrading/changes.

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

 

 

[dobboy 231 2 Cars]

My new wheels arrived earlier, R15x6.5 ET20

 

 

They all seem to be in very good nick and just need a good clean, maybe a T-cut.

 

Had planned on getting them pro refurb'd and done in the same colour as my body kit, perhaps in matt, and maybe with a silver rim.... but now i dunno. Maybe get a couple of old tyres fitted to them to see how they'd look the way they are. Previously bought 4 new Yoko AD08R's already, so these will go on them.

 

And my 309 wishbones (Delphi) arrived too.